Scar17

The hype over them has been wearing off in the US, and it doesn't look like they will be issued up here anytime soon (if ever). A few other .308's are already offered, with the XCR-M probably the closest choice.
 
Boltgun said:
FRT is necessary to register a firearm. If there is no FRt then the firearm cannot be registered. Hence the whole delay with these. RCMP refuse to issue the FRT # and there the firearms cannot be registered. According to the criminal code, the FN SCAR in semi auto is either restricted or non-restricted depending on the barrel length. No where has it been confirmed that this is a variant so that has no bearing (yet - you never know what they will do next)

Boltgun
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It could also be a prohibited firearm if it meets the Hasslewander criteria for a firearm that is readily and easily convertible to fully automatic, or it could be deemed a named or unnamed variant of a prohibited firearm. My point was that it must go through this process, and afterwards, as a result, it is classified and issued an FRT number. It is true that an FRT # is required for registration, but it is also required for classification. Without an FRT number, it has not yet been classified as a non-restricted, restricted or prohibited firearm, and is therefore not legal.
 
Hasslewander aside (let's not us the variant portion for a moment), I will have to respectfully disagree then. An FRT does not determine legal status. The criminal code does. scenario - new firearm made by individual (think no existing FRT#), used in crime, courts will rely on the CC to determine status not the FRT. The FRT is an investigative tool in the eyes of the law....it isn't the law. Don't get me wrong they will consult the FRT to see if there is a FRT#, however it isn't the deciding factor.

Boltgun
 
Boltgun said:
Hasslewander aside (let's not us the variant portion for a moment), I will have to respectfully disagree then. An FRT does not determine legal status. The criminal code does. scenario - new firearm made by individual (think no existing FRT#), used in crime, courts will rely on the CC to determine status not the FRT. The FRT is an investigative tool in the eyes of the law....it isn't the law. Don't get me wrong they will consult the FRT to see if there is a FRT#, however it isn't the deciding factor.

Boltgun
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I think you've misunderstood my post. The point of having an FRT issued shows that the firearm has been classified. Without having it classified, you cannot say it is a non-restricted firearm. You may believe it meets the definition of a non-restricted firearm as per the CC, but that fact has not been determined by the proper authorities (the FRT lab). When they determine weather it does or does not meet the criteria set out in the CC for being a non-restricted firearm, an according FRT number is issued. So the FRT does not "make" the firearm non-restricted... it does determine that the firearm meets the CC criteria though.
 
OK I see where you are coming from. Yes the FRT is a conclusion of a "determination". It isn't what determines the class though. With that said though, if the LGR stays dead, any new firearms made afterwards may not even be FRT'ed. IE: benelli makes their new Model XYZ4567, it is imported from europe (let's assume you can legally buy a gun in a european country) and when it gets here, you declare it. Since it is a non-restricted firearm (for arguement sake- it is a 308 boltaction rifle with a 670mm OAL and 500mm bbl) , there is no need for registration, then there is no need for classification via FRT.

Boltgun
 
Boltgun said:
OK I see where you are coming from. Yes the FRT is a conclusion of a "determination". It isn't what determines the class though. With that said though, if the LGR stays dead, any new firearms made afterwards may not even be FRT'ed. IE: benelli makes their new Model XYZ4567, it is imported from europe (let's assume you can legally buy a gun in a european country) and when it gets here, you declare it. Since it is a non-restricted firearm (for arguement sake- it is a 308 boltaction rifle with a 670mm OAL and 500mm bbl) , there is no need for registration, then there is no need for classification via FRT.

Boltgun
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I disagree. It is my understanding that if it is a new model that does not fit in to the current FRT (there are several variations listed under each FRT number), you would have to submit it for classification.
 
Non-restricted means neither restricted or prohibited, meeting definitions and prescriptions.

“non-restricted firearm” means a firearm that is neither a prohibited firearm nor a restricted firearm. (arme à feu sans restriction)
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The FRT is not in the Firearms Act as far as I can see. Regarding individual importing, it says a firearms identification number only needs to be declared if it exists.

I'm reading this to say as far as the FA specifies, no FRT required to get into Canada, and if it isn't restricted or prohibited, a licensed individual can own it as it is non-restricted.
 
This actually raises some valid questions. If I were able to bring one into the country somehow, with an 18.5" barrel, I would argue that it is Non-Restricted, and therefore does not need to be registered.

The police MAY ONLY arrest me for having a prohibited non-registered firearm (assuming I don't break any import laws, which is besides the point of my post). As far as I know, it is not illegal to own a firearm that doesn't have an FRT if it is non-restricted (correct me if I'm wrong).

The onus would then be on the RCMP to prove that the firearm is prohibited, which they haven't been able to do for the last two or three years now. As a result, the gun would be returned to me.

Perhaps this is the only way to get this whole SCAR fiasco settled.

NOTE TO QUESTAR: I am willing to be the guinea pig. Transfer me one of those SCARs with a longer barrel (somehow that might be a problem) and lets see the RCMP try it.
 
possessing a non-restricted firearm that is unregistered while you are the holder of a PAL is not a criminal offence now that the LGR is gone.

I will use the analogy of a machinist making their own non-restricted firearm. All that is needed is a PAL. Since there is no requirement to register the firearm, then there is no need to obtain an FRT#. However, as Ar180 eloquently pointed out, the RCMP is not going to readily give up the FRT...I am truly curious how this will play out.

I for one would not wanna be a test case and if I owned a firearms business, I wouldn't let me business be the test case either. I will leave that to people with larger plums (and pocket books) than myself.

Boltgun
 
I believe Boltgun is on the Right Track. The RCMP would like you to Believe THEY determine what is legal to own or what can be possesed in this country. But They don't, the Criminal Code does.
 
FrankieT said:
NOTE TO QUESTAR: Transfer me one of those SCARs with a longer barrel (somehow that might be a problem) and lets see the RCMP try it.
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See, you feel into the trap. There is nothing to Transfer. No more registry. s**t, I'll take one too!!

How would the RCMP know you have one? Like you said, you would be in possession of a semi-auto rifle with an 18.5" barrel. So what.


Disclaimer: 'I in no way encourage illegal activities in regards to importing or possessing firearms'
 
rivetc78 said:
See, you feel into the trap. There is nothing to Transfer. No more registry. s**t, I'll take one too!!

How would the RCMP know you have one? Like you said, you would be in possession of a semi-auto rifle with an 18.5" barrel. So what.
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Unfortunately all Questar's SCARs have 16" barrels. But I'm sure they can make it happen. Either way, Questar knows my address. I'll take a couple extra mags too please.
 
I'd wait until we the FAMAE Sig 542's come in (hopefully). The US will not let out anymore SCAR's.
 
I want something as reliable or better than the SCAR17 in .308
I've seen some video on the XCR-M and I don't think it has the ruggedness and reliability I am looking for....
 
They wont even take in new transfer now even if you buy from a store, so that means they wont even look at what you are bringing in?! As long as its not on the restricted or prohib list!
 
The FRT isn't law itself. It does, however, record the decisions made by the firearms technicians at the RCMP who are generally accepted by the courts as experts and therefore the court will almost assuredly accept their determinations on classification as correct. In the old system, this worked perfectly as all firearms had to be registered and in order to register the firearm you required an FRT number.

In the new system, there is no requirement to register non-restricted firearms but I'm sure the FRT will remain updated and continue to be used as reference material or evidence regarding the classification of firearms. I'm interested to see how they will force importers and manufacturers to submit samples for classification now.

Some good points raised here.
 
bcgunkid said:
I want something as reliable or better than the SCAR17 in .308
I've seen some video on the XCR-M and I don't think it has the ruggedness and reliability I am looking for....
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Lmt mws .308, more reliable and more accurate than the scar17.
Questar has three of them right now.
 
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