Schimdt and Bender compared to Nightforce.

  • Thread starter JoeP's old business account
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I have only used a S&B PMII onec glass was awesome! but the crosshairs(Mildot reticle) were way to think for me and covered to much of my Target


brighter them my Mark 4 and so close to my Nightforce I could tell if there was a $1000 dollar difference in the glass

I wish Nightforce would go with a 20 or even a 50 Moa per turn knob with a Zero stop

but untill then....

Joe does TPS make 34mm rings?

Jamie
 
Slavex, should have those two little paint dots been caught by the factory inspector or do you think they could have been "dust" that got trapped and showed up later?

Is there custom reticle changes available to either?
Turn around times for repair?
Replacement conditions?

Personally, I would rather compare mechanics than optics. No point seeing your holes at long range if they move their poi. :mad: Is there a best test that can actually test this? To me its sickening to finger tap a scope like its a powder measure.

Not to hijack, did anyone compare the NXS to the benchrest for the average Joe, no pun intended. :D Besides the LCF, is the cost justified? And what is with the ch1 benchrest reticle not being available on the benchrest scope?

I'd like to have a 12-42 benchrest with a modified reticle, I would buy one if possible.
 
Slavex said:
well my S&B isn't defect free, the dots don't affect the use of the scope though, ..... It's my standard luck really. I have a long list of things that have gone wrong buying guns and gun related stuff. If I believed in Karma, I'd be a very worried person right now.........
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You aren't alone, but I think if we look long enough and hard enough we will find something. Personally blemed glass would alarm me and be a distraction. We can always try to ignore them but it wouldn't be easy. Very surprising.


Slavex said:
I have had the opportunity to test all the scopes I mentioned, and more, at the same time, under the same conditions, be it bright out, raining, snow, or whatnot. I used to have a hardon for USO, till I got to play with some, and then found I didn't like them at all. I've always liked MKIV's from Loopy, but my 16x was limiting me at competitions that required different distances and such. Through all the chances I've had, the S&B line have always impressed the hell out of me, true they are a ton more money, but in the end, I knew that I'd regret not buying one if I bought something else, so I bought one. I don't expect to ever replace it, unless it gets broken somehow (that is once the replacement gets here).
as vendor says, different eyes get different results, I know people that think their Tasco Super Snipers are clearer and brighter than my S&B.
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How did the 16x Leup compare to the S&B 5-25x56 set @ 16x? Brightness? Resolution?
 
Jamie said:
I have only used a S&B PMII onec glass was awesome! but the crosshairs(Mildot reticle) were way to think for me and covered to much of my Target
brighter them my Mark 4 and so close to my Nightforce I could tell if there was a $1000 dollar difference in the glass

I wish Nightforce would go with a 20 or even a 50 Moa per turn knob with a Zero stop

but untill then....

Joe does TPS make 34mm rings?

Jamie
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Jamie it sounds like you were looking through a first focal plain S&B with a regular cross hair. Once you try John's P4 Fine its a completely different story.

As far as MOA per revolution goes, you will find the S&B has finer clicks on its turrets when compared to the coarser Nightforce.

After my comparison the I hope the price difference is driven by more features and possibly improved internals/tighter tolerances as opposed to the Euro and the high cost of labor in Germany. As we know, the Japanese have taught the Europeans a fair bit in the auto industry and I suspect the optics mfg industry isn't much if any different.

As far as TPS goes.....please pop over to the dealer section....I don't want to highjack the thread as the posting author might break down in tears, snivel and complain and my post could be edited....or worse I could be banned....(not that any of that would happen here though) LOL.

I wish I had an IOR 6-24x in my hands at this time to compare them but it looks like timing is not in my favor.

One thing we briefly touched on was features and main tube size. These 34 and 35mm scopes stretch the envelop on available scope rings. Not only that, but one thing I noticed on the S&B 5-25x56 was that your ability to support the scope tube is hampered by the illumination knob which takes up a good portion of the 34mm tube and creates a long cantilever which at first glance isn't a desirable thing. More importantly ring placement on your action is also less flexible then the Nightforce 5.5-22x56mm scope. Nightforce's illumination system although not as easily adjusted keeps the scope with clean, simple lines and reduced snag points.

The big question....will Nightforce be expanding their line and moving into the 34/35mm main tube race?
 
I had no problem mounting my S&B on my Sako, but I used the Sako 3 ring mount that was designed for this scope.
the two dots are pretty obviously paint, as they produce the same silver sheen when you move your eye around looking at them, just like the crosshairs do. So yes, someone should've picked this up at the factory. What's nice is that S&B hasn't said to send the scope back for repair, they're just sending me a new one to replace this one. The dots are first focal plane and once you get up past 10x are gone from the field of view anyhow. Plus even at the lower levels you have to be looking at pretty bright targets to see them. They are very small and not in an area of the scope where you'd normally be looking anyhow. But once this scope gets back to Germany and they find out which child let it through QC, I would imagine a small child will be having it's hands cut off. (kidding).
 
Slavex...What about this one....


How did the 16x Leup compare to the S&B 5-25x56 set @ 16x? Brightness? Resolution?
 
I really don't know if the one I used was a SFP or FFP PMII all I know is that the mildot reticle was way to thick for me ,I would love a chance to try out the P4 Reticle

I really hope Nightforce goes to the 34mm tube for the LCF/keep up with the Jone's) but what would they gain?the have 110MOA in the tube now would one really need more?
 
### International said:
Slavex...What about this one....


How did the 16x Leup compare to the S&B 5-25x56 set @ 16x? Brightness? Resolution?
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Joe, I sold a 16X Mark 4 to get the 5 - 25 X 56 S&B.

I shot with that 16X for many years and it served me well, but a straight 16X scope was toooo limiting in the competitions I shoot.

The S&B (for my eyes) is brighter and clearer then the Mark 4 16X.That is one of the points that made me want one.The others were the magnifaction and the reticle (I use the regular P4 reticle and not the P4 fine............).

The B&L 10 Tactical I used to have was also brighter and clearer then the 16X MK4....................That B&L is the only scope I really regret selling...............

As to mounting the S&B, I had no problems setting it up on a Near 25 MOA base thats sits on my custom AI 700.

I used Badger Ordnance 34mm Maximized Alloy rings.

SKBY.
 
Skullboy said:
Joe, I sold a 16X Mark 4 to get the 5 - 25 X 56 S&B.

I shot with that 16X for many years and it served me well, but a straight 16X scope was toooo limiting in the competitions I shoot.

The S&B (for my eyes) is brighter and clearer then the Mark 4 16X.That is one of the points that made me want one.The others were the magnifaction and the reticle (I use the regular P4 reticle and not the P4 fine............)..
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Ed, too bad you couldn't compare them side by side. The fixed power scope has less glass and consequently less losses in brightness so if it were up to speed with Leupolds top coatings, it should have been brighter. I think 16x is FULLY MULTICOATED.



Skullboy said:
As to mounting the S&B, I had no problems setting it up on a Near 25 MOA base thats sits on my custom AI 700.

SKBY.
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I'll have to see if I can find your original posting which had the photos on the rifle. The important thing is that it works well for you. When you compare it to the NXS in the preceding photos you can see the NXS offers considerably more flexibility.
 
I don't see the mounting being an issue. proper rings and bases will allow you to mount the scope where you need it.
I look through both of my scopes, the 16x and the S&B and the S&B is clearer and brighter. beyond that distortion etc are non existent in both.
 
When comparing the resolution of scopes, do set them up for YOUR eyes. Don't just look through someone elses rifle and make your conclusion.

The best example was a guy who let me use his high end Euro scope. The image was horrid. I mean seriously blurry and distorted. When I queried him, he 'saw' just fine and could describe things that only one would see if the scope was in focus.

Simply put, he used the scope to adjust for his eyesight. He used his scope like corrective lenses. never saw him again but I hope he now wears glasses.

I personally have a preference for Japanese specs glass like Bushnell Elite 4200/4000, Nikon and Nightforce. The Euro glass is just a bit off FOR MY EYES and tastes. Leupolds usually don't work as well for me. Pentax/Burris are seriously hit miss for my eyes.

Your mileage WILL vary.

Jerry
 
Slavex said:
I don't see the mounting being an issue. proper rings and bases will allow you to mount the scope where you need it.
I look through both of my scopes, the 16x and the S&B and the S&B is clearer and brighter. beyond that distortion etc are non existent in both.
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The smaller ring mounting area on the S&B is really not an issue until you want to position your scope in the optimal position for your rifle. Side by side, the NXS clearly offers more ring placement options then the S&B.

S&B inherently hasa larger torque arm due to the illum. device then the NXS. This is not really a plus.

Interesting. I would have expected the 16x Leupold (with less glass - but quality optics) to have performed better. The S&B should have more internal losses then the Leupold due to more glass/surfaces. Exit pupil favors the S&B 3.5 (@16x) while the Leupold would be 2.5. This larger exit pupil also enables your eye to be off center further then a smaller exit pupil which would give a blacked out image quicker. Although .5mm radius is pretty minimal movement. From what I understand both Nightforce and S&B share better resolution due in part to the larger objective.
 
Jamie said:
Joe does TPS make 34mm rings?

Jamie
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Jamie, I'm going out on a limb here but in Alberta, it is fantastic weather (sunny..no clouds +30 or so....) and I trust the original poster won't start whining if I answer your question today.....

TPS 34MM Rings are in STOCK NOW...:runaway:
 
Well I am still waiting for S&B to respond to issues with their scope. Clearly in comparison to other mfg....the worst response time. For a product of this cost....very disappointing.

The importer has been great. The Germans are clearly slipping.... Swarovski beats them hands down on response time. Nightforce leagues ahead of S&B.

We continue to wait.
 
what are you waiting to hear about? I've been in ongoing communication with them and get emails back in around 24hrs.
 
I had some specific questions directed to S&B on concerns with their scope. Again, to date no reply which is very disappointing. The Canadian Importer has offered fantastic dealer support. I only wish the product and manufacturer was as good. Given a $1-1.5K premium on top of a similar Nightforce scope, I had different expections then what was supplied.

It is somewhat reassuring that other board members are very pleased with the product they received. Perhaps the reason for the delay in response from S&B is that their specialists are on holiday.
 
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