schmidt and bender pmii 5-25, kahles 624i and nightforce atacr f1

shawn said:
Learning will occur:

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/07/01/tactical-scopes-field-test-overview-rifle-scope-line-up/

Shawn
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It has many major errors in it and he still hasn't bothered to fix them. March uses artillery mils in their scopes not true mils, so the clicks aren't the same size as true mils, which is why he thought it didn't track. He measured the max magnification in the S&B 3-27x65mm as 22.4x because he didn't have the ocular adjusted properly. He didn't center the erectors on the scopes before running the tests. The clearest part of the lens is it's center, so it really isn't a fair comparison. There other issues as well...

It's unfortunate. People will read it an make decisions based on incorrect information.
 
Hhahahahha! You are killing Kombayotch. Any other reading material you can suggest instead?

Cheers & Thanks,


kombayotch said:
It has many major errors in it and he still hasn't bothered to fix them. March uses artillery mils in their scopes not true mils, so the clicks aren't the same size as true mils, which is why he thought it didn't track. He measured the max magnification in the S&B 3-27x65mm as 22.4x because he didn't have the ocular adjusted properly. He didn't center the erectors on the scopes before running the tests. The clearest part of the lens is it's center, do it really isn't a fair comparison. There other issues as well...

It's unfortunate. People will read it an make decisions based on incorrect information.
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Ilya Koshkin' reviews are highly regarded... He's about to do a review of a bunch of the latest offerings.

HET5-1_zpsbuet1rzl.jpg


Also, there is going to be an article on the Hide pretty soon with some comparisons of a bunch of scopes, with some tracking tests. Watch for it on the front page.
 
Don't get me wrong, the PRB report has a lot of good info in it. PRB is excellent for specs and statistics. But, things like test results, analysis and conclusions should be taken with a grain of salt.
 
Canuck525 said:
After a bunch more research I am really leaning towards the Tangent Theta.
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At the current prices, TT would be my choice. I am admittedly a Premier Reticles fanboy so the TT having that lineage alone is enough for me to give it a shot. Now my only problem is how do I come up with $4400?
 
r34skyline said:
Wait wait wait, did some people just try to put vortex on the same level as Kahles, S&B, or Nightforce?
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You don't have a clue if you don't know the difference between a PST and Razor II. The only Nightforce scopes that are on the same level as the Razor II are the ATACR and the BEAST. The Razor II blows away the old obsolete NXS line. Mechanically, the Razor II gives up NOTHING to a PMII. It's built like a tank and doesn't exhibit the horrendous tunneling at the low end the 5-25x56mm PMII has (which shouldn't be there in a scope of that price). The only edge the S&B has is slightly better optics. Not better enough to make any difference whatsoever in actual shooting. Differences you only see when you put the scopes side-by-side and look through them for several minutes trying to find the differences.
 
Komb is right, with some of my past experiences with Vortex I was not really interested any more but the Gen II Razors are a whole different animal. Spent some time with the 4.5-27 and was really impressed, have the 1-6 Razor on my 3gun rifle and it's been great. The Gen II Razors seem to be reliable/durable also but time will have to tell.
 
Shabazz said:
Based on what I've seen there really isn't much of a price difference (although there should be). The Kahles is $4000 in some places and my local shop just got an ATACR F1, yours for $3900. With those kind of prices the SB is the obvious choice.
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I can't speak for the prices now but at the time I ordered it was ~$1100 more for the PMII.

S&B PMII 3-20 UltraShort - $3750
NF ATACR F1 4-16 Mil-R - $2643

For me it came down to:
PMII has better mag range, better glass(the ATACR glass is plenty good also), I love the PMII double turn turrets and like I said before better reticle options warranted the price difference for me.

One more thing is here in Canada we seem to get better "Value" with high end European goods than american goods, just look at the difference in price for S&B's in the USvsCan compared to NF and it seems like a "better deal".
 
Mine would be the Bushnell G2DMR! i have a I have a Bushnell 6-24x50 tactical FFP G2DMR and just love the reticle. once you build a load and get it figured out its easy to use, and along with STRELOK ballistic software on my iPad, its just awesome. check it out! The Bushnell series scopes are often overlooked, And can be had for a fraction of the price of the "big names", And the quality of the Tactical Elite series isn't the same as the regular Bushnell offerings.... I got mine off Snipers Hide for under 800.00! (Used, but "new") ;-)
 
kombayotch said:
You don't have a clue if you don't know the difference between a PST and Razor II. The only Nightforce scopes that are on the same level as the Razor II are the ATACR and the BEAST. The Razor II blows away the old obsolete NXS line. Mechanically, the Razor II gives up NOTHING to a PMII. It's built like a tank and doesn't exhibit the horrendous tunneling at the low end the 5-25x56mm PMII has (which shouldn't be there in a scope of that price). The only edge the S&B has is slightly better optics. Not better enough to make any difference whatsoever in actual shooting. Differences you only see when you put the scopes side-by-side and look through them for several minutes trying to find the differences.
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Agreed.

I had a chance to try out both the Kahles 624 and Razor II 4.5-27 at the CSAAA show yesterday. The Razor HD series is definitely up there with the Kahles. I would give the Kahles a slight edge in optical clarity and resolution, but this is really just nit picking as they're both outstanding scopes.
 
Canuck525 said:
I am in the market for a 5-25/ 6-24 scope in ffp.
I am hoping to get some opinions on these.....
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ginnz said:
Mine would be the Bushnell G2DMR! i have a I have a Bushnell 6-24x50 tactical FFP G2DMR and just love the reticle. once you build a load and get it figured out its easy to use, and along with STRELOK ballistic software on my iPad, its just awesome. check it out! The Bushnell series scopes are often overlooked, And can be had for a fraction of the price of the "big names", And the quality of the Tactical Elite series isn't the same as the regular Bushnell offerings.... I got mine off Snipers Hide for under 800.00! (Used, but "new") ;-)
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???
 
Optical resolution and low light performance is extremely important to me as this scopes primary function will be long range hunting( out to about 750 yards). I will also use it for steel out to about 1 mile....
I may well end up getting two( one this year and a second one next year) . I am leaning towards the S&B for this year and the Tangent Theta for one of my other rifles for next year.

What is the street price of the Razor HD 2 ? and who sells them? We don't even have a vortex scope dealer in this area that I am aware of.
 
Have you considered a Hensoldt as well? TI has the 6-24X56 for 3550 cad. Henny's are on paar with S&B, glass is amazing and they have a lifetime warranty.
 
J996 said:
Have you considered a Hensoldt as well? TI has the 6-24X56 for 3550 cad. Henny's are on paar with S&B, glass is amazing and they have a lifetime warranty.
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I understand Hensoldt are only a 2 year warranty. I did inquire from twenty20insight who is a dealer BUT they may be changing their warranty policy.
 
Canuck525 said:
I understand Hensoldt are only a 2 year warranty. I did inquire from twenty20insight who is a dealer BUT they may be changing their warranty policy.
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Interesting. TI has it listed as lifetime. When I was scope shopping I asked them and they said lifetime through Zeiss for the warranty. It was between Henny and S&B. It was real close and I went S&B because that was the traditional scope for the rifle it was going on.
 
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