School me in 1911 recoil springs?
- Thread starter Jamie
- Start date
Buffer in a stock .45 will likely result in failure of the slide to lock back occasionally, not worth it really.
Stock weight is 16lbs for a 5" .45, but 18 can be run if you are shooting a steady diet of warm 230gr ball. Also Wolff sells variable weight springs that work with a wider range of ammo...
Stock weight is 16lbs for a 5" .45, but 18 can be run if you are shooting a steady diet of warm 230gr ball. Also Wolff sells variable weight springs that work with a wider range of ammo...
The stock is supposed to be a 16# recoil and a 23# main. Don't forget they work together when you change one.
I notice the added front sight dip on return to battery with an #18 vs the stock #16.
I also noticed a greater dampening or softening feel to the gun by using a flat bottomed firing pin stop with a full power #23 mainspring than I did from going to an #18 recoil spring.
Shock buffs will prevent you from slingshotting the slide after lockback. If you use the slide release it won't matter of course.
I notice the added front sight dip on return to battery with an #18 vs the stock #16.
I also noticed a greater dampening or softening feel to the gun by using a flat bottomed firing pin stop with a full power #23 mainspring than I did from going to an #18 recoil spring.
Shock buffs will prevent you from slingshotting the slide after lockback. If you use the slide release it won't matter of course.
I use a 16# recoil spring with a Wilson Combat 2 piece full length guide rod and a shok buff and no problems either.
I bought the Wolff 1911 spring kit off eBay for one of my 1911's and I was so impressed I install them in all my 1911's. I can't remember all the info on them, but wow, makes a big difference feels smoother with less recoil. msg me if you want and I will try to find you the seller.
The shock buffer is sort of like using a rubber door stop. It avoids damage to the slide or frame by offering a softer bumper. But it is NOT a substitute for the correct spring weight.
The recoil spring should be tuned to the power of the ammo. The guys that shoot reduced power factor ammo in competitions go with lighter recoil springs because the ammo doesn't have the energy to push the slide back correctly. So reduced power ammo requires reduced power springs. But if you are shooting normal power ammo then you should not be using reduced power recoil springs.
For the smoothest recoil feel and the least shock to the hand and the least shock to the slide and frame you want to run the STIFFEST spring you can that still provides reliable last shot slide lock and a reasonably energetic ejection arc. By running the stock or perhaps even next STIFFER spring the recoil energy in the slide is spread out over more time and slide travel and the gun will feel smoother and less "kicky" in your hands. A softer recoil spring lets the slide bump into the frame and so your hand feels like someone hit the gun with a hammer each time you pull the trigger because of how the slide bashes the frame each time. The buffer is too thin to stop this. It's thick enough and soft enough to avoid damage as long as you don't go with too light a spring. But it's not thick and soft enough to stop the shock from reaching your hands.
But TOO strong of a spring results in lazy ejection and greater risk of stove pipe and double feed jams. On the other hand too weak of a spring lets the slide slam into the frame or buffer which results in using up the buffers sooner or possible cracks in the frame. It also makes the gun feel like it's kicking harder because of the slide hammering the stop points. It'll feel like that buffer or no buffer.
Bottom line is that if you're shooting stock power ammo then leave the gun stock with the regular 16lb spring. Or see if it smooths out while still staying reliable with a switch to an 18lb spring.
Even better would be to go to a 16 or 18lb main spring for the lighter trigger and go to the 18lb RECOIL spring to compensate for the lower cocking force needed at the slide to hammer. If you suffer from a weak looking ejection arc and occasional failure to lock back on the last shot then go back to the 16lb recoil spring.
The recoil spring should be tuned to the power of the ammo. The guys that shoot reduced power factor ammo in competitions go with lighter recoil springs because the ammo doesn't have the energy to push the slide back correctly. So reduced power ammo requires reduced power springs. But if you are shooting normal power ammo then you should not be using reduced power recoil springs.
For the smoothest recoil feel and the least shock to the hand and the least shock to the slide and frame you want to run the STIFFEST spring you can that still provides reliable last shot slide lock and a reasonably energetic ejection arc. By running the stock or perhaps even next STIFFER spring the recoil energy in the slide is spread out over more time and slide travel and the gun will feel smoother and less "kicky" in your hands. A softer recoil spring lets the slide bump into the frame and so your hand feels like someone hit the gun with a hammer each time you pull the trigger because of how the slide bashes the frame each time. The buffer is too thin to stop this. It's thick enough and soft enough to avoid damage as long as you don't go with too light a spring. But it's not thick and soft enough to stop the shock from reaching your hands.
But TOO strong of a spring results in lazy ejection and greater risk of stove pipe and double feed jams. On the other hand too weak of a spring lets the slide slam into the frame or buffer which results in using up the buffers sooner or possible cracks in the frame. It also makes the gun feel like it's kicking harder because of the slide hammering the stop points. It'll feel like that buffer or no buffer.
Bottom line is that if you're shooting stock power ammo then leave the gun stock with the regular 16lb spring. Or see if it smooths out while still staying reliable with a switch to an 18lb spring.
Even better would be to go to a 16 or 18lb main spring for the lighter trigger and go to the 18lb RECOIL spring to compensate for the lower cocking force needed at the slide to hammer. If you suffer from a weak looking ejection arc and occasional failure to lock back on the last shot then go back to the 16lb recoil spring.
Are you trying to effect any particular change by changing the spring weight?
If you're after reduced muzzle dip (as the slide returns to battery), get a low power variety pack and see how low it will go before you get malfunctions. If you keep it clean and use quality ammunition, it will almost certainly run 14lbs without problems, probably even lower.
There is no reason to run 18lbs or higher, unless you like to keep the pistol dirty, use poor ammunition, or have a generally poorly-fitted pistol that requires the extra weight for reliable function.
If you're after the best combo of flip and dip mitigation, I highly recommend rgv's comment about using spec springs (16/23) and a flat bottom firing pin stop. Best balance ever attained, in my (and many others') experience.
Depending on how tolerances stack in your pistol, you may be able to run a shockbuff without any issues. I put many thousands through mine without any failures, and it didn't keep me from being able to slingshot the slide, either. You won't know until you try. They're certainly not necessary, but they do soften the recoil impulse a very small but noticeable amount.
If it works with the stock spring, stick with it - once you start changing one variable, others come into play and before you know it, the gun doesn't function reliably. A properly sprung stock 1911 does not require a buffer. Wolff factory strength springs are an excellent idea.
The whole buffer idea is snake oil as far as I'm concerned. There are many other machines with hard metal on metal contact that endure much greator forces than the slide or frame of the 1911.
First pick your ammo, for me I like 230grain ball because it works the best and I don't need jacked hollow points to punch holes in paper. If I could carry my 1911 everyday, I'd probably still use ball just for the reliability factor.
So if you're using a "stock" loading, use a stock gun. If you're running hand loads and need to tune your 1911, have at it. Don't waste your time with a buffer. If the 1911 or the BHP needed one, JMB would have put one in the gun.
First pick your ammo, for me I like 230grain ball because it works the best and I don't need jacked hollow points to punch holes in paper. If I could carry my 1911 everyday, I'd probably still use ball just for the reliability factor.
So if you're using a "stock" loading, use a stock gun. If you're running hand loads and need to tune your 1911, have at it. Don't waste your time with a buffer. If the 1911 or the BHP needed one, JMB would have put one in the gun.
In that case I hope you got the message to leave it alone. It's set up from the factory to run that sort of ammo.
While changing to a softer mainspring DOES have an effect it's not a whole lot. If you change out the mainspring just leave the stock recoil spring as it is and all will be well.
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
Jamie, for the volume that you shoot, you should check out Wilson flat wire recoil springs. They are cheap from Brownells and you will get 20k rounds out of them.
That makes a ton of sense - flat wire springs really do last a lot longer
kschneider
Regular
- Location
- southern ontario
Can you run them with a stock 1 pc. full length guide rod, or do you need the quarter inch guide rod to allow the use of a flat wire recoil spring on a full length gun. I'm pretty sure most require a .250 guide rod.
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