School me on long range rifle and cartridge choice.

mctrigger

mctrigger

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Southern Alberta.
Lately I’ve been thinking about getting into the long range game. Not competitive but just smacking steel. I like the falling blocks like the 1885s. I have a 45-70 marlin so I’d like to use another caliber. There is a local range that goes out to 600 here but I do have access to land that goes too 1000 for the sake of fun. So the question is what’s a good caliber and rifle for the beginner that’s looking to get into it? I reload smokeless currently. I’m not opposed to BP. I’m a big believer of buy once cry once. But my cap is 2000. all in Like stated this is for paper and steel and hope to learn some new open sight skills. I’m Not real recoil sensitive. And for reasons I like vintage calibers. Hopefully someone has done the same and may have some insight to share. Thanks again
 
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As this is the BP page, I'll assume that you are thinking of using what would otherwise be a BP cartridge with a nitro load.

The black powder cartridge rifle association here in UK, for obvious reasons, does NOT use nitro, so joining a similar group of people in Canada is obviously not for you. You add that you are not competitive, however, I'm willing to bet that that would change if you got to a range where other shooters are having at an 800m steel buffalo. Somehow, being the only person on a range has never appealed to me, apart from the fact that here in UK it's not permitted.

I'm sure that there ARE loads for the good ol' .45-90, 110 and 120 that can be emulated with nitro, but in spite of being a shooter for well over 60 years, and definitely not recoil-shy, I wouldn't care to be shooting prone behind any of 'em. Launching a 500gr projectile at 1750 fps - or so - can really blow the wax out of the ears.

Guns to look at are definitely the Pedersoli Sharps - right at the top of your budget, and available in .45-70, -90, 110 and 120, or the Remington Rolling block which is, TMK, only as a .45-70 cal. My own rifle is a Uberti Model 1885 in .45-70 and it definitely has lost out at anything over 600m to the bigger capacity cartridges of the same calibre. Remember, too, that these huge bullets are LEAD, not jacketed, and you'd have to find a rifle that would shoot such bullets. TMK, none of the current crop of long-range BP rifles actually do that, mine included, although it IS nitro-proofed.

Seems to me that you have offered us a bit of a conundrum here, so I'll let wiser and more experienced heads than mine answer you better.
 
mctrigger said:
Lately I’ve been thinking about getting into the long range game. Not competitive but just smacking steel. I like the falling blocks like the 1885s. I have a 45-70 marlin so I’d like to use another caliber. There is a local range that goes out to 600 here but I do have access to land that goes too 1000 for the sake of fun. So the question is what’s a good caliber and rifle for the beginner that’s looking to get into it? I reload smokeless currently. I’m not opposed to BP. I’m a big believer of buy once cry once. But my cap is 2000. all in Like stated this is for paper and steel and hope to learn some new open sight skills. I’m Not real recoil sensitive. And for reasons I like vintage calibers. Hopefully someone has done the same and may have some insight to share. Thanks again
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Reproductions are most cost effective, Uberti or Pedersoli, there are dealers in Canada like Marstar, Prophet River and Wolverine who carry inventory , no recommendation on caliber I only shoot 45-70 (2 Sharps, 1 Highwall, 1 Trapdoor and 1 Rolling Block). There are a couple on #######dotcom. Make sure you get one with a good vernier rear sight and globe front sight with changeable inserts.

Retreever
 
I would advise going with a .45-90. Brass is easily available and it has the powder capacity to shoot well to 1000 yards. I have done a fair bit of 1000 yard competition in America and I have seen .45-70's work well, but quite often I've seen them fall apart at 1000 due to excessive vertical dispersion. The .45-90 ( and bigger ) hold vertical better. Once you get past .45-100 the brass is much more expensive and harder to find.

Some have managed to make smokeless work pretty well ( see the Quigley shoot in Montana for reference ), but with black powder it's fairly easy. This is mostly due to the inefficiency of black powder I think. It makes it easier to get more consistent velocity from shot to shot.

There are lots of options to choose for rifles, pick the one you like the most. Get the highest quality rifle and sights you can afford. I would give serious thought to buying a quality used rifle. These guns last a long long time if cared for properly. I mainly say that because a good rifle and good sights can be very expensive and will blow way past your budget, but used will bring the price down considerably.

Also, be prepared to get into casting your own bullets. It's not very likely that you'll be able to buy what you need.

Chris.
 
Now that the subject has been raised I'm very interested to learn what nitro loads might be used in a .45-90 or .45-100. As I mentioned, we DO shoot long range .45-70 and so on here in UK, but only with black powder loads.

Here's the UK chapter, if anybody is interested................http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/
 
Define 45-70 Marlin...If it is a 24 or 26 inch barreled "cowboy" you already have a gun that can easily compete with any SS at long ranges, just put a LR Vernier back sight on it and slide a Lyman or similar MVA front sight into the dovetail ...same sight as your going to use on any SS at further than 150 yrds. You can be doing what you want with equal results for less than 1/2 the expense.
 
Great advice. I have just recently got into casting as well. I have a decent stock of pure lead. As for my marlin it’s a guide gun. A 45-90 sounds very interesting I have read some on the 40-65 being alright aswell but there are not many factory options for either. Unless it’s a 1874 sharps. Do most of these outside of the 45-70/38-55 chambering get customer ordered or modified? Or are there occasionally special runs?
 
mctrigger said:
There is a local range that goes out to 600 here but I do have access to land that goes too 1000 for the sake of fun.
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That's going to be tough with black powder, since most of the traditional guns will have iron sights. You could get a Sharps repro that has good sights for long range shooting. I would ask you to consider a muzzleloader lke a flintlock or percussion cap gun too, those are just too much fun not to; and the a patched roundball or paper-pached conical can be surprisingly accurate.

tacfoley said:
Now that the subject has been raised I'm very interested to learn what nitro loads might be used in a .45-90 or .45-100. As I mentioned, we DO shoot long range .45-70 and so on here in UK, but only with black powder loads.
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There's this alberta fellow who reloads smokeless 45-120; you have to use filler because the amount of cartridge air space isn't ideal for smokeless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxi26kAATqc
 
mctrigger said:
I’m a big believer of buy once cry once. But my cap is 2000. all in
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Champagne tastes, beer budget. You're looking at the absolutely base entry level with that budget but it is still doable. Unless you fall into a great deal there's no way you're going to be getting a falling block with an appropriate barrel and good sights.

You're limited to Pedersoli: Rolling Block Target Steel (45-70) and a Lee Shaver rear sight. If you don't have dies for lead bullets, RCBS cowboy dies are good buy.

That combo will keep you going for a long time, and you can ream it out to 45-90 in a few years once you get sick of 45-70
 
hickstick_10 said:
Champagne tastes, beer budget. You're looking at the absolutely base entry level with that budget but it is still doable. Unless you fall into a great deal there's no way you're going to be getting a falling block with an appropriate barrel and good sights.

Ah. Good line. I suppose if there is a real jump in quality or performance that price could be adjusted a bit. But if that jump isn’t made to the 3000.00 mark I’d reconsider.
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Sights are one area where price makes a big difference. To the casual shooter there might not be a lot of difference at first glance, but you definitely get what you pay for here. I've used C. Sharps, Pedersoli, Shaver, AMT, and MVA soule sights and I'd pick nothing other than MVA.

One of the cheapest ways to get into the game is probably to find a used Browning/Winchester BPCR with the original sights. They are a "sort of" copy of the 1885 Winchester Single Shot. They are well built and accurate. If you go this route, make sure it's the BPCR models with the heavy barrels you look at, not the light weight Hunter ones. A used Pedersoli 1874 would also be a good choice. Just make sure to put good sights on it.

Chris.
 
mctrigger said:
Ah. Good line. I suppose if there is a real jump in quality or performance that price could be adjusted a bit. But if that jump isn’t made to the 3000.00 mark I’d reconsider.
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Honestly, it wont be a noticeable jump even at 5k. I shoot a Shiloh Sharps long range express with MVA front/rear sights and have lost fairly regular to a friends Pedersoli roller in 45-70, he also uses the same sights. I have double set triggers, he has a 2lb single, I have a pistol grip and cheek rest, he has neither. You don't need alot of extras once you have the 10 lb gun, with an appropriate barrel and good sights.

I agree with Gunlaker totally regarding MVA sights and the only reason I suggested the Lee Shaver is his are serviceable and would be the closest to keeping the cost inside 2000$. if you can blow the budget for anything, do it for those sights.
 
The C Sharps 1875 Sharps rifles are another rifle to look at.Though they don t have history behind them as the 1874 Sharps rifles do but they are a quality made rifle and normally can be had a bit cheaper used than the Shiloh Sharps 1874 rifles.Also the early 1875 C Sharps rifles have badger barrels which are very accurate.I would stay away from the 45/120 cal as brass is expensive,recoil is greater and there is no real advantage to it.Here is one of my 1875 Sharps

image.jpg


image.jpg
 
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I picked up a Pedersoli rolling block target 45-70 from Marstar when they were on sale for $1498. I have Lyman 17A front sight on it and a Pedersoli mid range soule tang sight. All less than $2000. I have been very impressed with it. Shooting blackpowder, I put 5 shots into a 3" group at 420 yards.

 
They’re uberti, therefore serviceable. Do not buy one in the hunting configuration with a crescent butt and low comb.

I’m seriously considering a John Bodine Pedersoli roller in 45-90 to tinker with the cartridge.
 
If you are not shooting in a competition , look on utube at sagebrush long shots they shoot all different calibers and different rifles at long range gongs . You do not have to kill ourself with recoil to hit steel at long range. opens up a whole lot of caliber choices ,maybe cheaper options on reloading , brass made from common calibers. You can make a lot of straight walled cartridges from 303 brass in different calibers. If you are going to shoot silhouette most common is 45/70 but as shooters get older you see the caliber become smaller like 40/65 , 40/70 SS less recoil over a two or three day match.

Go hard on the sights MVA is the best, you will never replace them, unless you buy a MVA scope.
 
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