Schultz & Larsen M68DL 7x61 S & H info wanted please

I just recently acquired 60 virgin Norma Re 7 x 61 S&H cases along with 50 virgin Norma Super 7 x 61 cases. I will have to weigh a few of each to see what differences exist.

As far as the difference, if any, between the two, all I ever heard was that the changes were to the inside profile of the case and a slight change in the metallurgy. :redface: I never checked for any actual difference in weight or any actual difference in case capacity. Should've I guess but I just just settled on using the Super 7x61 cases.
 
I have rifles in all three cartridges, a Dumoulin Mauser in 7x61, a Parker Hale in 308 NM, and a Mauser sporter in 358 NM. Like them all for different reasons. - dan

Read about the Dumoulin Mausers but never experienced actually giving one a good look until I saw a couple during a visit with Elmer Keith in Salmon Idaho in the early 70's. Nice rifles and as I recall, he made mention of them a few times in books and magazine articles.
 
As far as the difference, if any, between the two, all I ever heard was that the changes were to the inside profile of the case and a slight change in the metallurgy. :redface: I never checked for any actual difference in weight or any actual difference in case capacity. Should've I guess but I just just settled on using the Super 7x61 cases.

I believe the Super brass is made heavier in the web area (I'm not sure) (perhaps better heat treat) to help overcome the reloading problem with rear locking lugs and guys trying to obtain or exceed 7mm Rem Mag velocities...

I had a full wood Dumoulin in .243 Winchester.. purchased in the early 60's from Barotto Sports when they were a very small store. Nothing really special about it... Nicely blued FN action, reasonable wood. Nothing fancy.
 
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About a year ago I worked with a 7x61 S&L Model 65. Owner had provided a few original Norma cartridges. Two original "Re" headstamped cases weighed 258 and 255 grains. Three "Super 7x61" cases weighed 218, 218 and 217.8 grains. The Norma Re cases were loaded with 66.1 grains powder behind 160 grain TriClad Norma bullets. The Norma "Super 7x61" had 67.2 grains powder with same bullet. No way that I know of to tell if they were same powder or not. both were a "log" type powder. Filled cases to brim with water - the Re cases held 76 and 76.1 grains water; the Super 7x61 held 80.3, 81.3, 80.7 grains of water.
For comparison, the 7x61 cases that I formed from Remington brand 7mm Rem Mag weighed 233.4 and 232.8, and held 77.8 and 78.2 grains of water filled to the brim.
 
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I believe the Super brass is made heavier in the web area to help overcome the reloading problem with rear locking lugs and guys trying to obtain or exceed 7mm Rem Mag velocities...

I had a full wood Dumoulin in .243 Winchester.. purchased in the early 60's from Barotto Sports when they were a very small store.

Thanks Dennis. I had been informed 'changes' had been made and was given a rough word of mouth indication as to what they were. I decided and went with the Super 7x61 brass to basically for consistency and to standardize what components I was using for reloading.
 
7x61-Super.jpg

:d You're in my will :d. Don't know how I missed that post but thanks for the info. It falls in line with word of mouth info I've received previously. :) Thanks again :) .
 
The photo I posted in post 16 shows the thickness difference between the 2 types of cases.

Again :) , thanks for the info. It definitely shows and explains all the differences of the internal case profiles and metallurgy change between the two. Shows the increase in the case capacity offered by the Super 7x61 case. I was thinking if I still happened to have an earlier Re 7x61 S&H, I'd do a capacity comparison between that and a Super 7x61 case. :redface: No such luck. A while back when I decided to standardize to just the Super 7x61 brass, I parted ways with all I had of that stamped Re 7x61 S&H. Do you have both and if so, have you ever checked to see what the difference in capacity is between the two??
 
For many years, the factory loadings for the 7x61 and the 308 Norma Mag used Norma 205 powder.
Later Norma MRP replaced 205, and it was used in their factory ammo.
While I cannot say for newer 7x61 cartridges, the 308 Norma continues to use MRP [or a canister powder virtually identical]
EE.
 
For many years, the factory loadings for the 7x61 and the 308 Norma Mag used Norma 205 powder.
Later Norma MRP replaced 205, and it was used in their factory ammo.
While I cannot say for newer 7x61 cartridges, the 308 Norma continues to use MRP [or a canister powder virtually identical]
EE.

In 308 NM, I started out with a Parker Hale, Super Safari. ;) That was until I obtained my first Schultz & Larsen, in 308 NM. In both, with my initial reloads, N 205 was the powder I went with and still have an unopened can. When it 'seemed' to be getting a little more difficult to obtain, I started working up loads with a powder that worked well for me in the 300 WM, IMR 4350. In my :d next two Schultz & Larsens, the 7x61 S&H and the 358 NM, with what little reloading I've done for them, I've stayed with IMR 4350. The reason for any significant reloading for these last two is I 'lucked' into an ;) adequate supply of Norma factory to feed both so the 'need' hasn't been there ;) yet.
 
See below - oldie article. Phil Sharpe designed the 7x61 around IMR 4350 powder. Note who is the writer below:

Guns Magazine – January 1959 – Article by Elmer Keith

The 7x61 Sharpe-Hart Cartridge and The Schults-Larsen M60 Rifle

..."Phil Sharpe and #### Hart worked with their own shortened version of the Magnum case, very similar to the Richard Carlson .276. They experimented and changed that 7x61 Sharpe & Hart until they got the best possible performance with 4350 powder, working it out to as near exactly perfect bore capacity with this powder as was humanly possible." ...

..."Sharpe & Hart are to be complimented for staying with the job until they obtained both a commercially made rifle and commercially loaded cartridge. For standard loading of 4350 powder and any bullet from 160 to 180 grain the 7x61 S & H is probably as near perfect as human ingenuity can make it."...

..."however, we found out long ago, in working with the other big 7 mm cartridges, that anything under 160 grains is too light for big game as it simply explodes on impact and will also explode on a sunbeam or a blade of grass! The 160 grain Sierra boattail, that makes such a fine deer load with 50 grains 4350 in the old 7x57 Mauser cartridge, also proved the most popular for the 7x61, so Sharpe & Hart loaded it to as high as .3300 feet with 64 grains 4350 for a pressure of 53,800 pounds. They then had their Swedish cartridge supplier, Norma, duplicate the load as nearly as was practical with their powders. The end result was the 160 grain soft point boattail backed by 60.5 grains of Norma special No. 104 powder for a velocity of 3100 feet with a pressure of 51,730 pounds." ...
 
.... and with all the good things about the design and performance of the 7x61, the 7mm Rem Mag is the big winner... the most popular magnum in North America...
 
.... and with all the good things about the design and performance of the 7x61, the 7mm Rem Mag is the big winner... the most popular magnum in North America...

The intro of the 7x61 S&H to market commercial availability in 1953 led the the way for Remington to :stirthepot2: 'Make America Great Again' with the intro of the 7mm Remington Mag ;) in 1962. A small redo of the 7x61 S&H case matched any 'improvements' with the Remington 'New Kid'.
Somewhat similarly, ;) the 308 NM development in 1960 was the basically a pattern for 'America'/Winchester to give birth to the 300 WM.
 
That brass is probably worth about $700

I saw one vendor at the Kamloops gun show last year who was asking $150.00 for a box of 25 new NORMA 7x61 S&H cases. He still had them on his table when the show was over ...........


The intro of the 7x61 S&H to market commercial availability in 1953 led the the way for Remington to :stirthepot2: 'Make America Great Again' with the intro of the 7mm Remington Mag ;) in 1962. A small redo of the 7x61 S&H case matched any 'improvements' with the Remington 'New Kid'.
Somewhat similarly, ;) the 308 NM development in 1960 was the basically a pattern for 'America'/Winchester to give birth to the 300 WM.

It was the fact that Remington introduced the 7mm Rem Mag in their cheap mass-produced M700 rifle which made the cartridge popular. If they would have chambered the 700 in 7x61 S&H it probably would have sold just as well. :wave::rolleyes:
 
That brass is probably worth about $700

Some of it you have to search a bit but it is out there. Most of what I have I've acquired at gun shows but :) a couple of additional reliable sources of supply are Henry at Budget Shooter Supply and Mystic Precision. Both of which are site sponsors. I've never had any difficulties keeping an adequate supply available to easily meet my needs.
 
I saw one vendor at the Kamloops gun show last year who was asking $150.00 for a box of 25 new NORMA 7x61 S&H cases. He still had them on his table when the show was over ...........




It was the fact that Remington introduced the 7mm Rem Mag in their cheap mass-produced M700 rifle which made the cartridge popular. If they would have chambered the 700 in 7x61 S&H it probably would have sold just as well. :wave::rolleyes:

Can't recall what I paid for the new Norma 358 NM brass I purchased from Budget was but on a bag of 20 Norma Super 7x61 the price tag is $31.99.
 
I would like to find a scope from the time period this rifle was built (somewhere around 1968-72). Might anyone know/recommend what scope(s) I should be searching for on CGN? Also will need mounts/rings. Thanks in advance for any assistance.
 
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