Scope height so high above barrel on some air guns .

Rokon1976

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Been looking at higher end air guns lately and thinking of getting one.
I’m really liking the whole FX line . Been watching YouTube videos on them like crazy and I’m noticing just about every one I see has the scope mounted way high above the barrel . Like in some case 3-4 inches high .
At closer ranges that most air guns are shot at .. this can have a massive effect on point of impact .
My current springer air gun is sighted in for 25 yards and the scope is only 3/4 inch above the barrel
Because of how the pellets path and the cross hairs intersect at this range ... if I want to shoot at something 10 yards further then my 25 yard zero ..I actually have to aim under it an inch or so .
So what’s the deal with these guys with FX impacts that have their scopes mounted 4 inches above the barrel ?
Thanks to anyone that can enlighten an air gun newb .
 
Seems the guys on Youtube who typically have such high mounted scopes are the same guys who have been pursuing farther and farther ranges for paper punching and pest management. In the past 2 years or so those same guys have been converting to using slugs and slug barrels for the most part, while pushing those distances even farther - things like starling head shots at 130 metres, great for showing off on Youtube, and of course nice in terms of not spooking the pest by getting very close.

I hear you about scope-over-bore for shorter ranges. Since going to a much larger, heavier scope on my main PCP conversion rifle (a highly customized, very little original gun left of it, with an MTC Viper Pro 5-30x scope) I had to go to tall enough mounts to clear the front bell. That made ranging squirrels at 10 metres much, much more challenging than when I was using the same gun with a Leupold 2-7x rimfire scope on quite low rise mounts. Of course there was still holdover to think about, especially in cases where a squirrel was munching a butternut 5 or 6 metres from our kitchen... but I had a pocket range card for that and just estimated centimetres at the target and pulled the trigger, no big deal. With the MTC, I have to first make sure I've got the parallax right, then dial in the range tape on the top turret which was grossly calculated using their online calculator then a couple of much closer ranges written on to deal with the back yard. By the time I've got it ready to shoot, half the time the squirrel has moved on and I need to reset the scope for some other range, if the creep is still in the yard that is.

But those range tapes are another reason the guys with the high mounted scopes are able to get away with it. The high end scopes offering such a feature, especially when you can toggle off clicks as with my MTC model (silent elevation adjustment), mean you don't even need a range card. Once everything is perfectly zeroed and calibrated it's just down to dialing in the distance and taking the shot using the crosshairs, no holdover. Luxury. Provided one has the time to do the adjustments.

I've been using that scope for something like a year, and frankly I'm a bit tired of the hassle. But I'll keep it. It's fun to stretch out to 50 or 100 and take some shots on paper, zoomed right in so if the light is right I can actually see holes appearing as I go. With a 7x that's just guesswork and holdover, at least at the 750fps I'm tuned for. Don't want nor need any more power than I'm using now, though I certainly see the attraction of the 'sweet spot' between about 900fps and 950fps like the big boys use at greater ranges. Guess I just like a mellower power level sufficient for my uses and offering a lot more shots per fill.

The FX Impact had me under its spell in theory for several years, but the high-rise scope rail always bothered me. I'd rather lean in to look through the scope than have it jumped up so high. The Leshiy appeals to me more now. It still has a somewhat elevated scope position, but I'd want a small scope like the purpose-built 6x Edgun recommends for it, mounted as low as practical. Used out to maybe 50 metres that airgun just seems the most sensible. And not even the fabulous new 8-shot semi-auto version, as cool as it is! No, I'd like one of the last of the original model, single shot... but sadly can't shoot that in Canada outside a proper range thanks to silly re-classification stuff.
 
Seems the guys on Youtube who typically have such high mounted scopes are the same guys who have been pursuing farther and farther ranges for paper punching and pest management. In the past 2 years or so those same guys have been converting to using slugs and slug barrels for the most part, while pushing those distances even farther - things like starling head shots at 130 metres, great for showing off on Youtube, and of course nice in terms of not spooking the pest by getting very close.

I hear you about scope-over-bore for shorter ranges. Since going to a much larger, heavier scope on my main PCP conversion rifle (a highly customized, very little original gun left of it, with an MTC Viper Pro 5-30x scope) I had to go to tall enough mounts to clear the front bell. That made ranging squirrels at 10 metres much, much more challenging than when I was using the same gun with a Leupold 2-7x rimfire scope on quite low rise mounts. Of course there was still holdover to think about, especially in cases where a squirrel was munching a butternut 5 or 6 metres from our kitchen... but I had a pocket range card for that and just estimated centimetres at the target and pulled the trigger, no big deal. With the MTC, I have to first make sure I've got the parallax right, then dial in the range tape on the top turret which was grossly calculated using their online calculator then a couple of much closer ranges written on to deal with the back yard. By the time I've got it ready to shoot, half the time the squirrel has moved on and I need to reset the scope for some other range, if the creep is still in the yard that is.

But those range tapes are another reason the guys with the high mounted scopes are able to get away with it. The high end scopes offering such a feature, especially when you can toggle off clicks as with my MTC model (silent elevation adjustment), mean you don't even need a range card. Once everything is perfectly zeroed and calibrated it's just down to dialing in the distance and taking the shot using the crosshairs, no holdover. Luxury. Provided one has the time to do the adjustments.

I've been using that scope for something like a year, and frankly I'm a bit tired of the hassle. But I'll keep it. It's fun to stretch out to 50 or 100 and take some shots on paper, zoomed right in so if the light is right I can actually see holes appearing as I go. With a 7x that's just guesswork and holdover, at least at the 750fps I'm tuned for. Don't want nor need any more power than I'm using now, though I certainly see the attraction of the 'sweet spot' between about 900fps and 950fps like the big boys use at greater ranges. Guess I just like a mellower power level sufficient for my uses and offering a lot more shots per fill.

The FX Impact had me under its spell in theory for several years, but the high-rise scope rail always bothered me. I'd rather lean in to look through the scope than have it jumped up so high. The Leshiy appeals to me more now. It still has a somewhat elevated scope position, but I'd want a small scope like the purpose-built 6x Edgun recommends for it, mounted as low as practical. Used out to maybe 50 metres that airgun just seems the most sensible. And not even the fabulous new 8-shot semi-auto version, as cool as it is! No, I'd like one of the last of the original model, single shot... but sadly can't shoot that in Canada outside a proper range thanks to silly re-classification stuff.

Yes, I have noticed the guys on YouTube seem to shoot more longer ranges .. so their high scope height would be less of an issue .
Yeah, I hear exactly what your saying about trying to shoot a squirrel at 6 yards . Lol .
As I said, my gun is zeroed at 25 yards and I can put pellet on top of pellet a that range .. one ragged hole with a 5 shot group if I do my part . So then to take a shot at a squirrel at 10 yards and have a clean miss .. and then shoot again and miss yet again and have the squirrel hop away is very frustrating.
I don’t want to drop 2 grand on a Airgun and have the same issue . I guess it’s just the geometry of shooting at close ranges . I never thought of a lower power scope with a smaller bell like you mentioned.. getting that crosshair down as close to the bore as possible would help a lot . The primary use of my Airgun will be pest control in the back yard with a max range of 40 yards .. so a small 2-7 scope might be the ticket .
It looks like with most of the FX line that the magazine gets in the way if you wanted a lower scope . I haven’t really looked at the edguns much as I wasn’t able to find any retailers in Canada .
I will see what else I can find out . I just want an Airgun that’s whisper quiet and will shoot a squirrels eye out every time . Lol .
Thanks for the in depth reply :)
 
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Well your best friend for making a range card to use at various ranges will be either Chairgun Pro or Strelok Pro. They work quite differently, and I find both useful for different aspects of my shooting. Strelok I like better for .22lr and 9mm PCC, Chairgun more for airguns, though there's lots of cross-over. Strelok has a free version but I sprung for Pro. Chairgun has stopped being updated, and requires a current Java installation, but is free and still works just fine. Get Strelok for an Android phone on the play store. Chairgun is here:
https://www.hawkeoptics.com/chairgun-and-x-act-end-of-life.html
You'll need to plug in data regarding pellet weight and velocity, scope over bore from centre to centre, and loads of other information specific to your setup to get good numbers and charts out of it. Worth the learning curve in my opinion. I print out the charts and keep them with each gun, laminated, for quick reference in the field after reading a range with a rangefinding scope.
 
Well your best friend for making a range card to use at various ranges will be either Chairgun Pro or Strelok Pro. They work quite differently, and I find both useful for different aspects of my shooting. Strelok I like better for .22lr and 9mm PCC, Chairgun more for airguns, though there's lots of cross-over. Strelok has a free version but I sprung for Pro. Chairgun has stopped being updated, and requires a current Java installation, but is free and still works just fine. Get Strelok for an Android phone on the play store. Chairgun is here:
https://www.hawkeoptics.com/chairgun-and-x-act-end-of-life.html
You'll need to plug in data regarding pellet weight and velocity, scope over bore from centre to centre, and loads of other information specific to your setup to get good numbers and charts out of it. Worth the learning curve in my opinion. I print out the charts and keep them with each gun, laminated, for quick reference in the field after reading a range with a rangefinding scope.
Thanks for the info . I’ve never really looked into range cards etc . I understand the concept though . This may be something I may have to explore if I want to get proficient with an Airgun at varying close ranges .
I did range several spots in my yard and make a mental note of holdovers for the different ranges and then try to apply it to the nearest spot the damn squirrels show up . Lol .
But it’s still a bit of a guesstimate when your target is as small as a squirrels head . I hate missing what should be easy shots .. or even worse, wounding a critter when it should be a bang flop type shot .
 
Is there an airgun that is close to "whisper quiet" and still good for squirrels? PCPs can be quite loud unless they have a moderator or a shroud. Even springers are not especially quiet.
I’m actually not sure how quiet they are are . I’ve never fired a pcp . But I keep reading how quiet they are . They seem very quiet on the videos I’ve watched .
I know most guys have moderators on them .. I think most of the FX guns come with a moderator .. that’s one thing I wasnt sure on the legality of in Canada ?
I know we’re aren’t allowed any sound suppressors on firearms . But if it’s an air rifle and it comes as part of the gun from the factory is it ok?
I’m hoping even without a moderator, they will be much quieter then my current springer .
It’s a Diana model 48 ... and it’s is as loud as a .22lr .. or damn close l I’m certain a 22 short is quieter then it .
Sound is one of the main reasons I’m looking at pcp’s . My two closets neighbours are cool with me eliminating the tree rats .. but I’m not sure what the others would think .. and my current set up is loud enough to raise eyebrows a block away . Lol .
 
I only have experience with 3 different PCPs. An Airforce Condor in .22cal, an AA S510xs in .22cal and a Daystate Red Wolf in .177cal. The Red Wolf is the quietest.
 
I’m actually not sure how quiet they are are . I’ve never fired a pcp . But I keep reading how quiet they are . They seem very quiet on the videos I’ve watched .
I know most guys have moderators on them .. I think most of the FX guns come with a moderator .. that’s one thing I wasnt sure on the legality of in Canada ?
I know we’re aren’t allowed any sound suppressors on firearms . But if it’s an air rifle and it comes as part of the gun from the factory is it ok?
I’m hoping even without a moderator, they will be much quieter then my current springer .
It’s a Diana model 48 ... and it’s is as loud as a .22lr .. or damn close l I’m certain a 22 short is quieter then it .
Sound is one of the main reasons I’m looking at pcp’s . My two closets neighbours are cool with me eliminating the tree rats .. but I’m not sure what the others would think .. and my current set up is loud enough to raise eyebrows a block away . Lol .

I wouldn't take video as evidence of volume, simply because of the limitations of the microphone. It's more noticeable in videos with firearms.

My single-stroke pneumatic HW75 still gives a pretty loud pop - enough that I wear muffs with it. Barrel length is probably pretty important to the noise level, just like with low velocity .22lr
 
I’m actually not sure how quiet they are are . I’ve never fired a pcp . But I keep reading how quiet they are . They seem very quiet on the videos I’ve watched .
I know most guys have moderators on them .. I think most of the FX guns come with a moderator .. that’s one thing I wasnt sure on the legality of in Canada ?
The RCMP/government do not permit ANY airgun to have a moderator/suppressor in Canada. The FX rifles which look like they're shrouded for sale in Canada actually have longer barrels with the muzzle at the end of the shroud. No suppression at all. In the USA and the UK, NZ to some extent I think, and some other countries, moderators, silencers, supressors, whatever you want to call them are perfectly legal, though with varying rules around registration or whether they can be detachable in some US states and I think in the UK where they need to be registered. Canada is sticking to the absolutely not rule... except for police and the military, and I think movie prop companies like MarStar.
 
PCP's in Canada are loud. No shrouds or moderators which might quieten them are allowed. In the UK moderators are typically viewed as a an act of kindness so as not to create noise unnecessarily. In fact shooters are often encouraged to use them. In the US, moderators are allowed in some states, but there are hoops to jump through to get them. There's little use in railing against their prohibition in Canada, whether for airguns or powder burners. The law is there and many would argue there are more pressing firearms legal issues ahead of suppressors in the queue.
 
PCP's in Canada are loud. No shrouds or moderators which might quieten them are allowed. In the UK moderators are typically viewed as a an act of kindness so as not to create noise unnecessarily. In fact shooters are often encouraged to use them. In the US, moderators are allowed in some states, but there are hoops to jump through to get them. There's little use in railing against their prohibition in Canada, whether for airguns or powder burners. The law is there and many would argue there are more pressing firearms legal issues ahead of suppressors in the queue.
Hmm .. good to know . Loud you say ? Well crap.. that might defeat my whole plan and reasoning for owning a pcp . Lol
Wish I could demo one to see how loud . I mean I don’t need whisper quiet .. but if it’s going to be anywhere near the loud thwack my current springer makes ..then I’m not sure it’s worth the investment .
Anyone know if caliber plays a roll in noise level ? I’d think pushing more air out the barrel to push a heavier larger pellets might make louder pop . But maybe not ?
I was leaning towards .25 .. but if there is a noticeable difference in noise I’d go with a .22 .
Also, I’d imagine with the fx guns being so tuneable .. you could lower the pressure a fair bit and probably get a quieter report while still keeping it plenty fast enough to make mean kills .
 
PCP's are loud indoors. But outside at the range, its very quiet. This is with a pcp shooting a 22 cal pellet at around 900fps. No need for ear plugs outdoors. In the basement, yes. Outdoors, no. In my opinion.
 
I have a PCP. Air Arms 510.

s-510-left.jpg


Shooting heavy 177 pellets at 950 f/s it does not sound loud to me... indoors or out... the pellet smacking a hard target is as loud indoors.

I think the spring loaded 1000 f/s rifles are way louder.
 
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"Loud" is relative. The OP was looking for a "quiet" airgun. Any idea of PCP rifles being as quiet as they may seem in videos is misleading. An unmoderated or unshrouded PCP, the only kind available in Canada, is not in the "quiet" range of noise, even though they may not be as loud as a .22LR outside. I base my opinion on the PCP rifles I've had, from the lowly Discovery, an AT44, AA S510, and a couple of HW100 rifles.
 
In this video either the can is fake or it's not Canada (even though it's called Air Rifle Hunting Ground Squirrels Catch & Cook Day 12 of 30 Day Survival Challenge Canadian Rockies and the luggage tag reads flight WS665 to YYC)
But the rig sure is quiet

 
In this video either the can is fake or it's not Canada (even though it's called Air Rifle Hunting Ground Squirrels Catch & Cook Day 12 of 30 Day Survival Challenge Canadian Rockies and the luggage tag reads flight WS665 to YYC)
But the rig sure is quiet
Yeah, well, looking at their 'gear page' from the link under the Youtube info thingy, they list a DonnyFL suppressor. That's not something one can import to Canada legally, certainly not something one could use legally in Canada. I don't want to take the time looking into everything about that silly show to find out how they're calling it a Canadian adventure/challenge/whatever, but when I search the text under the Youtube video they don't really focus on that. Maybe by 'Canadian Rockies' they mean 'near the Canadian border in the US Rockies' or something like that? If they actually filmed this on Canadian soil, they have published a commercial video proving they violated Canadian law. Which wouldn't be the first time I've seen people showing off their suppressors on videos filmed in Canada, on Youtube, but it seems a bit risky for a show with relatively high production values and staffing. Usually it's someone just showing off their shooting skills and either forgetting they're using an illegal device or not much caring because they'll get 11 views and don't think an RCMP officer will be among their audience.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys . Yes, I guess everyone’s perception of what’s quiet and what’s loud is different.
I will have to do some more research . I have always wanted a highly accurate good quality pcp anyways . It’s only my recent squirrel problem in a residential area that has me more concerned with the noise level . I may opt to get one regardless just because they are cool and look like a fun toy . I enjoy shooting and it’s a cheap way to shoot lots . (Cheap once you have the gun and pump)
I’m looking at the FX crown and the Dreamline ..leaning toward the dreamline as it’s a fair bit cheaper.. and seems to have all I need in a air gun .
 
The RCMP/government do not permit ANY airgun to have a moderator/suppressor in Canada. The FX rifles which look like they're shrouded for sale in Canada actually have longer barrels with the muzzle at the end of the shroud. No suppression at all. In the USA and the UK, NZ to some extent I think, and some other countries, moderators, silencers, supressors, whatever you want to call them are perfectly legal, though with varying rules around registration or whether they can be detachable in some US states and I think in the UK where they need to be registered. Canada is sticking to the absolutely not rule... except for police and the military, and I think movie prop companies like MarStar.

Although this is true in general, a Canadian on youtube appears to have a corporate exemption, as the videos depict the use of multiple suppressors in LML/GVRD of BC. Perhaps the BC CFO is more flexible.
 
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