Scope on GPMG???

Well "pray and spraying" doesn't work too well when you have a larger enemy force coming at you, nor does trying to scare the enemy when your shooting a machine gun with minute of the board side of a barn accuracy at longer ranges. ;)

There are reasons militaries around the world started to develop better and more accurate ways to shoot GPMG's and LMG's. They didn't just wake up one day and said "Lets put scopes on all our machine guns to make them sniper rifles".

Really want to use a weapon to "Scare the sh*t" out of your enemy, get yourself in a Artillery unit and pound away with a 6" Field piece. :p

Dimitri
 
Honestly, I know the concepts of the gpmg... again i do not need lessons, i am on my PSWQ machine gunners course right now, using the C6 on its tripod and c2 sight... I thought this was a snipers scope because of its length, if it isnt and is the same as a elcan than i stand corrected. If it is a sniper scope and the gun can be fired Semi-automatically i stand corrected again bacause it can be used as a rifle.
 
micSarfati said:
Honestly, I know the concepts of the gpmg... again i do not need lessons, i am on my PSWQ machine gunners course right now, using the C6 on its tripod and c2 sight... I thought this was a snipers scope because of its length, if it isnt and is the same as a elcan than i stand corrected. If it is a sniper scope and the gun can be fired Semi-automatically i stand corrected again bacause it can be used as a rifle.
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Yawn.

If you don't need lessons ... why are you on the course? Just asking.
:popCorn:
 
Well I was going to make my own thread - as I just did on a few other forums but....

Recently BigRed went on leave and left me a new toy to play with.
I bigged some of the guys who have experience with it - and have been trying to negotiate with BigRed for a permament loan :D
I had seen the mythical beast previous - having gotten a short fam fire with it in the early 90's at Connaught, and had seen the Greek Cypriot SF with its younger brother the Hk23 while in Cyprus.

Whats not to like about a closed bolt, belt fed 7.62 gun? Its not GPMG - but it does have a QCB - and there is a LW (and Short) Para barrel for it - and currently negotiating for one. Its about 16lbs -- so about 4lbs less than my carbine ;)
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I am awaiting Aimpoints new machine gun optic - the T-1 Micro on the Matech BIS base which will give you adjustment out to 600m - as while the Short Dot is an excellent tool - I have one on my carbine -- and for most urban usage of this gun as a dismount support weapon the smaller (and lighter) CCO will be advantageous.
Magpul is currently working a stock for this one (several like its unique abilties - so its not just a KevinB niche market ;) ) -- and I am trying to figure out a ligth mount for it so I can add a vis light.
It takes both the US (NATO) disintegrating link belt - and the german (RPD/PKM like) non disintergrating belt -- I run a short teaser belt in the car (we have M240's that use it as well) and I got a german fixed belt in my buggout bag, plus our 240 ammo bags.
 
Dimitri said:
Well "pray and spraying" doesn't work too well when you have a larger enemy force coming at you, nor does trying to scare the enemy when your shooting a machine gun with minute of the board side of a barn accuracy at longer ranges. ;)
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Sure it does, you want to "win the firefight" first ;)
 
KevinB,

I want to ask, with a machine gun in like Iraq and Afghanistan since it seems alot of the insurgency is urban based do the troops over there and contractors try to limit how much they shoot MG's incase of hitting a civilian farther out cause of rounds going past their target ??

Mind you I guess this is more of a issue with "spray and pray" then aimed fire. But I was just wondering.

Dimitri
 
Anytime we shoot here now - we have a DOS interview/investigation and are off mission until cleared.

However guns like the PKM and M240 are godsends and they can really stop a vehicle in its tracks.
 
micSarfati said:
-A beaten zone is the area where the rounds are falling on the ground, killing people and breaking things
-A danger zone is before the beaten zone, where the rounds are flying over your head.

Some people here are saying that the gpmg is used as a precision weapon, I beg to differ as i was instructed that it is an area effect weapon. A beaten zone is what i am talking about when i say lead must rain on your target.
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If you're convinced that the danger zone is where rounds are flying over your head, you're either eyes-deep in a battle trench or you need to ask your instructors to review basic machine gun theory with you.

The danger zone is the area between the first strike and the first graze.

The effective range of the C6 is such that a higher magnification optical device is very valuable when it comes to identifying the targets you are about to engage. That is where the Weapons Det commander comes in with his binos...spotting the fall of shot. This is the same reason that the C2 mortar sight is used in the SF role. Once you've registered your targets, you can lay the gun back on them with a high degree of precision without the need to see the target. You as a gunner, using iron sights, can't provide the same level of precision.

While your beaten zone makes the machine gun an area effect weapon, a magnified scope would give you a pretty bloody good idea of where the center of that zone would fall. If you're a good machine gunner, in the light role, you can still get a lot of positive use out of a low to medium magnification telescopic sight. Better target identification, and more precision in your initial point of aim will translate into more rounds on target.
 
Glen Valour said:
Yawn.

If you don't need lessons ... why are you on the course? Just asking.
:popCorn:
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I was asking about that scpecific gun... my question was does anyone know more about this H&K and why it has a scope....i know i have a lot more to learn... its just that a lot of what ive learnt up to now is contradictory to what some people on this thread have written.
 
micSarfati said:
its just that a lot of what ive learnt up to now is contradictory to what some people on this thread have written.
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Thats because some people still treat the LMG and the GPMG as "Just keep shooting and your bound to hit something!" firearms. Mind you at one point raining down at your enemy with machine gun fire did still work, back when they still thought lining everyone up and marching in formation was a good idea as well. Which by the way I think that line of thinking ended in World War 1 for the most part. ;)

The trend for accurate fire of a machine gun is a old one, its been 80 some odd years since the British developed the No. 32 scope and yet people do not see it as a weapon to more or less accurately engage the enemy at a distance. The fact that people do not let go of old ideas easily is another matter completely.

And KevinB is right when it comes right down to it he has more experience then most anyone on the board. So what he says goes. :runaway:

Dimitri
 
w squared said:
If you're convinced that the danger zone is where rounds are flying over your head, you're either eyes-deep in a battle trench or you need to ask your instructors to review basic machine gun theory with you.

The danger zone is the area between the first strike and the first graze.

The effective range of the C6 is such that a higher magnification optical device is very valuable when it comes to identifying the targets you are about to engage. That is where the Weapons Det commander comes in with his binos...spotting the fall of shot. This is the same reason that the C2 mortar sight is used in the SF role. Once you've registered your targets, you can lay the gun back on them with a high degree of precision without the need to see the target. You as a gunner, using iron sights, can't provide the same level of precision.

While your beaten zone makes the machine gun an area effect weapon, a magnified scope would give you a pretty bloody good idea of where the center of that zone would fall. If you're a good machine gunner, in the light role, you can still get a lot of positive use out of a low to medium magnification telescopic sight. Better target identification, and more precision in your initial point of aim will translate into more rounds on target.
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I was thought on my basic that the danger zone is the area between where the rounds start falling and the beaten zone... maybe i was thought wrong...
Yes the scope is a pretty good idea, I didnt think of that in my initial thought...thanks

Not a good artist but this is pretty much the diagram we were shown on danger zone and beaten zone...
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q314/#####vomie/dangerzone.jpg
 
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Close, but no cigar.

Essentially, the danger zone is the area where a round would strike a standing soldier. The area between where the trajectory of the rounds brings them down to head height, and the edge of the beaten zone closest to the gun.

Thus this is the area between "first strike" and "first graze"

The diagram that you've been given is a misleading oversimplification. The trajectory of the rounds is never actually flat. From the moment they leave the barrel, gravity is acting on them. They begin to drop as soon as they leave the barrel. The gunner angles the gun upward to counteract this, and allow the rounds to strike the intended point of aim 800 meters downrange. At longer ranges, this "arc" becomes more pronounced. The danger zone only begins when this "arc" approaches to within man-height of the ground.
 
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