Scope Ran Out of Elevation Adjustment

[thegazelle]

Hello:

Just want to state at the outset I am not well versed in optics when it comes to scopes. I have had only a few in my life and they have been very basic (Bushnell 3-9x40) and have gone on my .22s. Have never had an issue getting the rifle sighted in with the windage/elevation adjustment changes.

Last year, I bought a more complicated scope (for me) for my (what was then) new precision rifle. It was a Primary Arms SLX 3-18x50. It is an FPP scope, with a ACSS .308/6.5 reticle. Mounted it on my Axis II Precision rifle, sighted in at 50 meters to start and everything was fine.

Should also mention the rings I used on the scope are Vortex Pro series, 30mm, HIGH height

I bought a Tikka T3x TAC A1 within the past couple of weeks. Decided to move the Primary Arms scope to the Tikka, along with the rings. Mounted it on the picatinny rail, balanced everything using bubble levels at home.

Took it to the range for the first time yesterday and was sighting it in. After a couple of shots, I adjusted windage, and got it pretty exact. Then I started to do elevation, as all my shots were hitting slightly low (about 4.5 to 5.0 inches below the center of the target). I adjusted elevation and got to about 3.5 inches below the target when the elevation dial got to the end and I couldn't move it anymore.

The good news is that despite it shooting low, subsequent shots grouped extremely well, pretty much that "clovering" effect, so definitely can see the quality of the Tikka for precision. Just too bad about not being able to adjust elevation any further.

Asked another range member about it and he said he has seen this before and I could either replace my rings OR replace the picatinny rail with an angled one (my picatinny rail runs cross the whole top of the rifle and I am not sure if it is removable). I am also not sure what I can do about the rings since even with the high rings, the bell of the scope is pretty close to the rail but it is not touching.

Has anyone seen this before and have a suggestion how I can remedy this? What would be best avenue going forward?

That said I did take the scope and rings directly off of the Axis II Precision and put it directly on the Tikka before making adjustments.

Would prefer to make this scope work since I wasn't really budgeting on buying another scope.

Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.

 

[tiriaq]

Given the amount of elevation adjustment built into the scope, if you've run out of adjustment, you have a serious alignment problem.
I would suggest you get a set of Burris Signature rings and use the eccentric bushings to alter the pitch of the scope.
You could try a different scope, see if it can be zeroed. That would suggest whether the problem is in the rifle/base or in the scope.

 

[thegazelle]

Given the amount of elevation adjustment built into the scope, if you've run out of adjustment, you have a serious alignment problem.
I would suggest you get a set of Burris Signature rings and use the eccentric bushings to alter the pitch of the scope.
You could try a different scope, see if it can be zeroed. That would suggest whether the problem is in the rifle/base or in the scope.

Thanks. Based on my problem, what would you suggest I get as the height for these rings? Medium?

The gun is brand new retail. The scope worked on my other precision rifle. Is it possible that some matings of gun/scope just are not to be?

 

[tiriaq]

Use whatever height of rings are comfortable when aiming and give clearance for the scope.
You could try laying a long straight edge on the base to get an idea if there is a fundamental alignment problem. Used this trick to discover that the factory sight base on a Steyr SSG Match was misaligned right from the manufacturer.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Burris XTR Sig rings.... you can now shim a massive amount if desired and get that Tikka reaching way out there.

simple, pic rail compatible and way less headache then trying to find a replacement rails.

If I can help, I have 30mm and 34mm options onhand. For height, I prefer the tall rings cause you have an adjustable comb and can move as needed. Forends and big scopes need more height to clear... YMMV

FYI, many factory rifles need alot of scope adjustment to sight in. as long as it shoots well and functions properly, solving the scope set up is easy.

Jerry

 

[vagrantviking]

I'd start by taking everything apart and reassemble. Look for any spots where things aren't seated properly. Maybe there's a burr or chip under the rail or ring. Maybe move the rings forward or backward one or two positions if possible.

If that doesn't make any change look into the Burris Signature rings as mentioned. If you are going to be using it for more extended range you might want to look at the angled rails as well.

Another possibility is that the barrel is bent down or misaligned with the reciever. Its unlikely but possible. This could be a little trickier to recognize.

 

[Canuck1977]

Considering it’s a tikka that are usually pretty good out of the gate I would check your assembly first. Is the rifle used? Maybe the previous owner put an angle rail on backwards? If everything checks out, Burris is the way to go.

 

[nof60]

Something ain't right here. Unless you are shooting way way out there you should not need to shim. I would take a set of calipers to the rings and make sure they are the same. I am not sure if you bought the gun new but 20 moa bases for LR are common on these and maybe somebody put it on backwards?

 

[thegazelle]

The Tikka is brand new, bought through a sponsor last 1-2 weeks.

Well, I took a slightly early lunchbreak today and went into my safe to grab the Tikka.

Complete disassembly was a very good suggestion.

So...it appears as if this may be an installer (me) problem...OK, you may recall on my OP that I took the entire assembly - scope mounted on the rings over to my Tikka in totality directly from my old rifle where it was mounted on a long piece of pic rail. So what I thought was just move the whole thing over from one pic rail to another and then make adjustments.

What I didn't see is as follows (see photos)...and I can blame my lack of experience on this, or carelessness or whatever.

1. The Tikka does not have one continuous pic rail. It's actually two pieces: a short piece and then a much longer piece. From a distance they APPEAR to be the same height, but who knows.
2. There is a "break" or "pause" piece in between the two pieces.

In my excitement to get the old scope over to the new one, when I moved it all over, I just moved the whole scope with tightened rings over (since it was already level on my other gun) and just put it on the Tikka after I checked eye relief (not by sliding the scope on the rings back and forth since it was already tightened) but moving the whole thing, rings and all between different points of the pic rail. Once I found a decent eye relief point, I just tightened it onto the rail and then checked the side to side balance with a bubble level.

Based on your suggestions to disassemble, I noticed that the front ring on the right side is not fully hugging the rail, because, I had put it on the "break", "intermediary" or "inbetween" spot inbetween the short and long rail pieces. I am pretty sure that is not a spot where you are supposed to tighten any ring. Based on eyeballing it, it was not way off, but it was not the same amount of surface area that as grabbed by the front ring base as the back ring base was.

So I thought aha, first problem. So instead of taking the scope off the rings, I unscrewed the base of both rings and moved the whole thing forward so the front ring can grab a proper pic piece. But now the front ring was on the longer pic piece while the back ring was on the shorter piece. But then I saw the scope bell touching the pic rail, which is no good.

With these two pieces of pic rail, it would seem to me that they are actually not at the same level as I had assumed; otherwise, the bell should not have touched the rail.

So I went online to look at other Tikka T3X TAC A1s. Sure enough for every single one of them, the scope rings (if 2 rings were used) were BOTH on the short piece of rail. So what I did was take everything apart and mount the rings on the short piece of rail only and then later today after work I'll have to play with the eye relief by moving the scope back and forth on those bottom ring halves which is what I should have done in the first place.

Now that the scope is on the rings which are both on the short piece, the bell of the scope is no longer touching the pic rail.

I am not saying that this fixes my problem but certainly there's probably enough there to warrant taking it back to the range to sight in again before buying new rings to try.

Here's some photos for you to see what I am talking about.

In both photos, where the rings are is where I now moved to them to after all the above.

In the first photo, where my fingers are is where the rings were before - you will notice where I point to the front with my finger - that's where the front ring was tightened (and didn't grab the other side fully)



The second photo where my fingers are is where I moved the rings to, but then the front of the scope bell hit the pic rail - you can see that one of the rings was on the short piece and the other was on the long piece. Given the fact that now that I have both rings on the short piece and the scope when put on the rings, the bell on the front DOES NOT touch the pic rail - that probably tells me that front rail is not even with the back rail (maybe it's not supposed to and I'm just an dumb inexperienced scope installer...haha).



Thanks again for your feedback and suggestions. Will try it this weekend and hopefully it is better.

 

[Paul_T]

Unless you have a monolithic rail you never want to mount rings jumping over receiver and front rail.

Mount your rings on the receiver section only.

 

[thegazelle]

Unless you have a monolithic rail you never want to mount rings jumping over receiver and front rail.

Mount your rings on the receiver section only.

I am glad I had this experience as I was not aware of that before. Except for my .22s, all my other guns all have red dots and I mounted them as forward as possible on pic rails. For my 22s they are all on a dovetail / 11mm rail piece.

Thanks for all your feedback. I can't wait to take this thing out on the weekend now...hopefully this fixed the problem.

 

[vagrantviking]

Just seeing there was a difference in how the bell was touching or not depending on the location indicates that you have almost certainly found the issue. Good observations.
Looking forward to hearing how your next range day goes

 

[thegazelle]

Just seeing there was a difference in how the bell was touching or not depending on the location indicates that you have almost certainly found the issue. Good observations.
Looking forward to hearing how your next range day goes

I hope so. Though the first time including when I took it to the range yesterday, the bell was not hitting the rail even though the front ring was affixed to that intermediary piece.

I know when I came home last night I put a laser bore sight into the gun and even in my small home here, tried to sight it in within a very short distance. The dial was not moving still. If it adjustable now (assuming it's high and I have to bring it down instead of up, it will be very encouraging.

Thank you and everyone else for taking the time out to provide helpful suggestions and directions. This is why I really appreciate my fellow members here in this community.

 

[thegazelle]

Yeah, I think I fixed the problem. Threw a .223 laser bore sighter cartridge into it, and unlike last night, the laser is very high today (even in a closer distance in my home basement) and unlike last night (when it was very low and just like the range, I wasn't able to raise it at home), I was able to make adjustments to the elevation at home today and brought it down CONSIDERABLY. I suspect there will be ZERO problems at the range given how much the elevation came back the other way so it is probably close to factory center right now, which means I should have a lot of slack on either side to adjust when I get to the range.