Scope rings not true

INTIMIDATOR

INTIMIDATOR

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Southern Ontario
I have a Savage 110 in 7mm RM. It was gifted to me quite some time ago and it's time for it to get some new glass. I took the old scope off which was a tasco pile of garbage and I'm replacing it with a 3200 10x. The bases were loose when I took the tasco off, so I added loctite and re-torqued the base bolts. When I put the rings on and set the scope on it needs to be pushed down into the rear ring. It's as if the rear, or front ring, is not in line with the center of the other ring. This gun is the older pre-accutrigger with the flat receiver.

I've flipped the rings, and swapped them front to rear with no change in the outcome. I even took a piece of dowelling with 400 grit paper one rolled it in there to try and true it up. It has Weaver style bases of unknown brand. I've filed off all burrs from both the gun and the bases. I tried a different scope in there and it does the same thing.

Question is: would switching to a one piece Picatinny rail solve this issue? Or are the rings that came on the scope I bought not aligned with each other? Rings are going to be the cheaper option and easier to find. Trying to find a one piece base for the long action flat receiver is tough, but not impossible.
 

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This problem is more commen than most realize.

Yes, a one piece rail can help, but the alignment issue will still put stress into the rail, which will flex and put stress into the scope.

The best way to address this is to carefully epoxy bed a one piece rail to the receiver (maybe even pin it too).

Alternatively, Burris Signature Zee rings are an elegant solution.

The delrin inserts that come with the rings are probably the simplest way to achieve coincident alignment đź‘Ť

(Some will say 'lap' but personally I am not a fan of lapping rings)
 
Since you don't know the Mfr of the base or rings, how can you be sure either is OK ? Did you have a problem with the Tasco while mounted on the base/rings ? Throwing parts on without determining the actual problem doesn't always find a solution right away. Do you have 'other rings' to check against the ones now on ? You did check with another scope so the 3200 should be OK, like not 'bent'.
PS the Burris will work but a 'set' costs ca $150+ or more. I'd check the base, then the rings to help find the issue beforre any further expenses.
 
I'd start with the rings. The ones you have look like Weaver Grand Slams. They were unreliable for me when hunting in cold conditions. The little tab that squeezes the base/rail cracked in half when hunting in very cold conditions. They were perfectly fine in summer. Crack ran right through the middle where the hole for the screw is. I admit that i did not use a torque wrench on them and that it might have been my fault in the end, but just something to keep in mind.

If you have a loose straight rail laying around, put the rings on it and check if both rings are same height and how the scope fits. That way, uneven base height might be the problem. I think you've basically already done that by switching the rings with no change in effect. Uneven base height is where i'd look after all that you've already done.....Shims you might have missed ?...wrong bases that happen to fit but are wrong height ?

Just called bubba, the subject matter expert. He said that if you want to do it the bubba-way, cut a strip of metal out of a soda can and fill the gap between ring and scope tube with it.
 
All it takes is for the holes in the receiver to be slightly off. Lapping can do wonders if done properly, but from your photos l think lapping might thin out those rings too much in the part where they are narrow.

Burris Signature Zee rings 1" can be found for less than $80. The ones for 150 plus are the XTR Signature.
 
You want the Burris _Signature_ Z-Rings, those are the ones with the inserts.
Yes, they will set you back $100, but you'll only buy them once.

Or... You can bed rings just like bedding a stock.
 
exomax said:
I'd start with the rings. The ones you have look like Weaver Grand Slams. They were unreliable for me when hunting in cold conditions. The little tab that squeezes the base/rail cracked in half when hunting in very cold conditions. They were perfectly fine in summer. Crack ran right through the middle where the hole for the screw is. I admit that i did not use a torque wrench on them and that it might have been my fault in the end, but just something to keep in mind.

If you have a loose straight rail laying around, put the rings on it and check if both rings are same height and how the scope fits. That way, uneven base height might be the problem. I think you've basically already done that by switching the rings with no change in effect. Uneven base height is where i'd look after all that you've already done.....Shims you might have missed ?...wrong bases that happen to fit but are wrong height ?

Just called bubba, the subject matter expert. He said that if you want to do it the bubba-way, cut a strip of metal out of a soda can and fill the gap between ring and scope tube with it.
Click to expand...
I guess I’m not the only one who broke Weaver grand slams. Junk.
 
Yes, the 3200 came off of my Mauser that uses Leupold std rings and bases, so I know the scope is good. The old tasco wasn't holding zero so I thought it was the scope, but upon removal found the bases screws to be loose.

It's not a height issue, it's a left to right issue. It's as if the front mount is canted too much to the right, or the rear one is to the left. It doesn't take much to get the scope to sit into he ring properly, I just don't believe you should have to do that. The rings that came off the gun are too low and can't be used with the 40mm objective of the 3200.

The rings I have are metal and heavy as $#&!, lapping could take a really long time, and would also leave a void on the non contact side when completed.

Thanks for the ideas, I'll do some looking around for some parts and get back to you on the results.
 
Hand Skills said:
This problem is more commen than most realize.

Yes, a one piece rail can help, but the alignment issue will still put stress into the rail, which will flex and put stress into the scope.

The best way to address this is to carefully epoxy bed a one piece rail to the receiver (maybe even pin it too).

Alternatively, Burris Signature Zee rings are an elegant solution.

The delrin inserts that come with the rings are probably the simplest way to achieve coincident alignment đź‘Ť

(Some will say 'lap' but personally I am not a fan of lapping rings)
Click to expand...
This. It really is the easy button. - dan
 
INTIMIDATOR said:
Yes, the 3200 came off of my Mauser that uses Leupold std rings and bases, so I know the scope is good. The old tasco wasn't holding zero so I thought it was the scope, but upon removal found the bases screws to be loose.

It's not a height issue, it's a left to right issue. It's as if the front mount is canted too much to the right, or the rear one is to the left. It doesn't take much to get the scope to sit into he ring properly, I just don't believe you should have to do that. The rings that came off the gun are too low and can't be used with the 40mm objective of the 3200.

The rings I have are metal and heavy as $#&!, lapping could take a really long time, and would also leave a void on the non contact side when completed.

Thanks for the ideas, I'll do some looking around for some parts and get back to you on the results.
Click to expand...
Put an old style Leupold/Redfield base on it, you can adjust them for windage. And you can still use Burris rings to protect your scope (and adjust height, if required). - dan
 
dan belisle said:
Put an old style Leupold/Redfield base on it, you can adjust them for windage. And you can still use Burris rings to protect your scope (and adjust height, if required). - dan
Click to expand...
I've seen the Burris rings offered as a solution so many times over the years, but I've never had a rifle that needed this sort of issue fixed so I guess I'm just lucky. But the Leupold Std rings and bases have worked for me for years without issue and they definitely do give a little wiggle room. Based on that, I'd be trying that as my first choice. Hell, you might even find a set on the EE or at a gunshow for a few bucks off.
 
INTIMIDATOR said:
Yes, the 3200 came off of my Mauser that uses Leupold std rings and bases, so I know the scope is good. The old tasco wasn't holding zero so I thought it was the scope, but upon removal found the bases screws to be loose.

It's not a height issue, it's a left to right issue. It's as if the front mount is canted too much to the right, or the rear one is to the left. It doesn't take much to get the scope to sit into he ring properly, I just don't believe you should have to do that. The rings that came off the gun are too low and can't be used with the 40mm objective of the 3200.

The rings I have are metal and heavy as $#&!, lapping could take a really long time, and would also leave a void on the non contact side when completed.

Thanks for the ideas, I'll do some looking around for some parts and get back to you on the results.
Click to expand...
The Leupold Bases you referring to are they the ones with the turn in and then a base with two (windage screws) on either side for the rear one ?
 
No offence but those rings look to be in the same category as the scope was.

Until you have tried a decent set of rings on there, I wouldn't go to the extreme of getting a one piece to mount up level.
 
Normally those types of bases has a number stamped in them, you might have to remove them to see it.
You might have the wrong bases.
As for the rings lightly mount them side by side on the scope tube, is the base of the symmetrical with each other or are they off?
Seems like a fairly quick way of identifying the culprit.
If the difference is minimal lapping will likely fix any issue and the scope should have more than enough internal adjustment to find zero.
Only way to know would be to torque down the two lower rings and see where the material gets removed to see if it looks like a workable solution.
As others have stated Burris Signature Zee Rings are a nice looking solution, you just have to ensure you have the right inserts orientated correctly before you torque them down.
The Leupold or Redfield one piece windage adjustable base and rings are also an option that will work and possibly the easiest to put on and not screw up if your problem is just left to right alignment (with vertical being good).
Unfortunately they both come at an expense so if budget is in play I’d start with what you have.
 
Hand Skills said:
Alternatively, Burris Signature Zee rings are an elegant solution.
Click to expand...
100000%

Get Burris Signature Zee rings, and never, ever, ever look back....

It still blows my mind how these aren't used exclusively. They work better than any $500 1-piece mount. Especially when used with a 2-piece rail, they eliminate any need for lapping and have perfect alignment every time. And with offset inserts, they're great for getting your scope to where you want it in the adjustment range (if you're a long-range shooter).

And no more ring marks on your scope!!!
 
wasrupzuk said:
Normally those types of bases has a number stamped in them, you might have to remove them to see it.
You might have the wrong bases.
As for the rings lightly mount them side by side on the scope tube, is the base of the symmetrical with each other or are they off?
Seems like a fairly quick way of identifying the culprit.
If the difference is minimal lapping will likely fix any issue and the scope should have more than enough internal adjustment to find zero.
Only way to know would be to torque down the two lower rings and see where the material gets removed to see if it looks like a workable solution.
As others have stated Burris Signature Zee Rings are a nice looking solution, you just have to ensure you have the right inserts orientated correctly before you torque them down.
The Leupold or Redfield one piece windage adjustable base and rings are also an option that will work and possibly the easiest to put on and not screw up if your problem is just left to right alignment (with vertical being good).
Unfortunately they both come at an expense so if budget is in play I’d start with what you have.
Click to expand...
That's a great idea to put the rings side by side on the scope and check for inconsistencies between the 2. I'll have a gander at that tonight. Going to maybe swing by the local gun shop and see about a set of zee rings
 
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