The gentleman I quoted said " your point of impact WILL be different".............I said this is not NECESSARILY correct...............
Scope Sight-in
- Thread starter islander76
- Start date
The gentleman I quoted said " your point of impact WILL be different".............I said this is not NECESSARILY correct...............
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
That would have more to do with the fact that pretty much everyone is more accurate from a bench than offhand. If you can hold it as rock solid as off the bench, I'm sure POI would be the same.
It has to do with the fact that different surfaces used to support the gun, whether hard or soft, provide different feedback to the rifle during firing and thus alter your POI. The benchrest will greatly improve precision, which is what you seem to be talking about, but may not reflect accuracy if it is shot in a different manner while hunting. Of course, this is occurs in varying degrees depending on the gun design, the type of rest used, and the technique used by the shooter.
-J
I have shot my rifles prone, over backpacks, over truck hoods, a good solid sitting position, and using trees and shooting sticks............POI is always the same as from the bench, right out to 600 mtrs...............took my Marco Polo at about 570 mtrs moving and my Altai Argali at a lazered 457 mtrs with a called heart shot, so I know my rifle shoots exactly the same as it does from the bench. I have developed a style of shooting off bags that exactly matches my holds in the field.
long range shooter
Member
I agree. Also your hold and cheek weld are slightly different in different shooting positions. All of these things contribute to the significant potential for POI changes.
canadian hunter312
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County
CAA is cheap and prevents you from being in a dangerous or uncomfortable position on the side of the highway. The fact is, most people don't need to know how to change a tire. Same with hunting, most people hunt somewhat close to home and a scope that has lost it's zero is simply an inconvenience. Those who're far from civilization will likely have the skills to zero their own scope or be hunting with friends or a guide who could do it for them.
As for your question, I believe the OP would end his hunt and come on CGN asking if anyone could zero his scope before the weekend...
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
If your gun is properly bedded and the barrel free floated, light pressure has little effect. If of course you're resting the gun on the barrel instead of the forend, you'll change harmonics and that will change POI, same as putting excessive pressure on the barrel so it touches inside the channel....the "hand over bbl benchrest grip".
Like I said, I have yet to meet someone who shoots accurately enough during a hunting situation from field positions where your theory becomes the reason for the miss/wound.
If Ganderite had been shooting at game, not paper, that certainly would have been enough for a miss or a wound.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Sounds like he's got some bedding issues, and shooting different kinds of ammo is hardly a fault of a change in grip or shooting position.
Another vote here for the laser boresighters, especially the ones that mount magnetically to the muzzle (very quick, no intrusion into the bore itself). I find that boresighting by actually looking through the bore usually puts my first shot within 12 inches or so of the bull (i.e. somewhere within a 2-foot circle) at 100 yards. The laser almost always puts me within about 4 or 5 inches of POA, sometimes much better. The old Leupold magnetic optical boresighter, which has a grid engraved on a lens, is almost as good, but I just can't seem to intuitively wrap my head around how the hell it works so I'm not a huge fan. 
I keep expecting to find a gun which has the muzzle cut at less than a perfect 90-degree angle to the bore, which should throw the laser completely for a loop. Haven't found a case of that so far; the laser always seems to do the job. It's also great for swapping scopes; before removing a sighted-in scope from a rifle, pop the laser on and sight through the scope at the dot. Note it's location in the field of view, remove the scope, mount the replacement scope, adjust to the same magnification if possible, and then adjust the turrets to match the location of the dot in the field of view to where it appeared in the old scope. Test fire, and make whatever small adjustments are needed. Easy peasy.
I keep expecting to find a gun which has the muzzle cut at less than a perfect 90-degree angle to the bore, which should throw the laser completely for a loop. Haven't found a case of that so far; the laser always seems to do the job. It's also great for swapping scopes; before removing a sighted-in scope from a rifle, pop the laser on and sight through the scope at the dot. Note it's location in the field of view, remove the scope, mount the replacement scope, adjust to the same magnification if possible, and then adjust the turrets to match the location of the dot in the field of view to where it appeared in the old scope. Test fire, and make whatever small adjustments are needed. Easy peasy.
- Location
- Manitoulin Island
Bought a rifle and a scope. Dealer installed and bore-sighted. Went to range with buddy. Started @ 100 Yds, my target and his side by side. I went first AND HIT HIS TARGET. Bore-sighter used was collimeter type that works from expanding arbour in muzzle end of bore. Now I start at 25 Yds. Fire one shot, from a cheap plastic "bench rest". Adjust scope to move crosshairs to bullet hole. Remember, 4 times as much adjustment at 25 Yds. as 100yds to move 1". After that a few adjusting shots to get right on. Find it a good practice to move a little LESS than should be required. Better to move a little more than chase back and forth on adjustment knobs. This is true as long as scope adjustments are working correctly. Some cheap scopes aren't worth mounting on a rifle. Attended a workshop on sighting in. Instructor had us fire 3 shots, move elevation up 3" , fire 3 shots, move windage right 3". fire 3 shots, move elevation down 3" fire 3 shots move windage left 3" fire a final group. If you have a nice 3" square with your 5 groups, your scope is adjusting properly. If not, lose the scope. I use the bench-rest to cancel out as much human error as possible. I have not found that shooting from other than the bench rest makes significant difference as long as I do my part. However, my friend was having trouble when he rested the barrel of his rifle, rather than the forend on the front pad of the rest. Your experience may vary.
- Location
- Near Edmonton, AB
I use a cheap Ebay laser bore sighter but use it differently than most. I clamp it down and aim it at a far wall. I then use a rest and aim the bore at the laser. I then set the scope to the laser, always double checking the bore as I go along. I find this more accurate than actually putting the laser in the bore.
So, instead of looking through the bore at a small object or mark, you spend the money for a laser, then project a dot on the wall and look through the bore at the dot? Okay...seems you could have just put a mark on the wall with a Sharpie, but to each his own.
- Location
- Near Edmonton, AB
The laser I got off eBay costs the same as a sharpie...
Fair enough.
However, you still need to be able to sight down the bore (difficult with many non-bolt-action guns). You also have to rest/brace the gun solidly and immovably, but with the dot centered in the bore. Then you need to bob your head back and forth between the bore and the scope, watching both while not moving the gun but simultaneously making scope adjustments. Sounds like the same-old-same-old of boresighting. With the laser attached to the gun, no rest is required; you could do the adjustments with the gun shouldered...standing, sitting, bouncing on a trampoline, whatever...as long as you can see through the scope the dot and the crosshairs will maintain the same relative positions until you make the adjustments. You can actually watch the dot in the field of view moving into alignment with the crosshairs. Much easier.
I never bore sight anymore. I have bore sighted through the barrel, plus I have a good quality Bushnell bore sighter with the magnet.
However, the time and energy spent on bore sighting only saves from one, to a maximum of three, sighting shots at the range.
At the range put up a cardboard target at 25 yards, maybe two feet square, or round or whatever turns your crank, with a small mark in the centre. Take a careful aim over a bench and squeeze off a shot at your mark.
Carefully measure your hit in relation to the centre of the mark, then adjust your scope so the next hit should be about 1/4 inch low of the centre of your mark. After the second shot you should be within no more than about 4 inches off at 100. So put a normal target up at 100 and finish sighting in.
However, the time and energy spent on bore sighting only saves from one, to a maximum of three, sighting shots at the range.
At the range put up a cardboard target at 25 yards, maybe two feet square, or round or whatever turns your crank, with a small mark in the centre. Take a careful aim over a bench and squeeze off a shot at your mark.
Carefully measure your hit in relation to the centre of the mark, then adjust your scope so the next hit should be about 1/4 inch low of the centre of your mark. After the second shot you should be within no more than about 4 inches off at 100. So put a normal target up at 100 and finish sighting in.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Just as above, the trip to sight it in always involves a nice cardboard box out about 25 yards, first.
By the way, sometimes the shooter is the problem. A acquaintance stopped in for help to get his 270 sighted in - had gone through box and a half of shells and still was not satisfied. Not being familiar with that rifle, I first shot a three shot group - about 1 1/4" - my friend got all wound up about "wasting shells". Adjusted scope and shot a pair about 1/2" apart. Final adjustment got the last pair just nicely centered and 2" high. He then proceeded to shoot the last three shells into a 5 1/2" "pattern", and claimed this as proof that my sighting in wasn't any good. So far as I know, he is still working on it his way - "saving shells" by fire once, crank on the turrets, fire again - crank on the turrets, etc., etc. totally oblivious to the issue.
I either bore sight with an arbor type boresighter, and then by looking through the bore to verify, and then I fire my first shot at 100 yards, which is on the target about 95% of the time. For those rare times that the first shot is not on the target at 100 yards, I move to 50 yards and fire one shot. I don't bother with shooting at 25 yards, because it just isn't necessary with a proper bore sight. I find the magnetic type bore sighting tools, to be pretty much useless.
I can get on target at 100 yards by just pulling the bolt while on sandbags and dialing the scope in... I have never bore-sighted a rifle in 40 years.
OP... you should be sighting in your own rifle, or at the very least have someone competent actually shoot the rifle and zero it based on your needs AND THEN YOU should shoot at least a box through it to get comfortable with the hold vs POI feel of the rifle... hunters should do everything in their power to avoid wounding game.... becoming confident in and comfortable with your rifle is part of that.
OP... you should be sighting in your own rifle, or at the very least have someone competent actually shoot the rifle and zero it based on your needs AND THEN YOU should shoot at least a box through it to get comfortable with the hold vs POI feel of the rifle... hunters should do everything in their power to avoid wounding game.... becoming confident in and comfortable with your rifle is part of that.
