Scoped hunting rifle accuracy(big game)

crazy_davey

crazy_davey

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Over the past while a few close friends and I have been having a discussion on scoped, big game hunting rifle accuracy(not coyote or varmit rifles). I myself am an accuracy freak, I am not happy until I am shooting MOA or better with my scoped hunting rifles, always with premium bullets. For me, I think it comes from the money and time I have invested in my rifles. Do I think it is necessary? Not always, IMO it all depends on where and what I am hunting. I hunt a wide variety of game in all types of terrain, from solid bush to prairies to steep mountains, shots can vary from 50 to 400 + yards.

I have friends that are born naturals at shooting, doing nothing more than shooting at a pie plate off of the hood of a truck with factory loads before hunting season. I have also witnessed these same guys make simply amazing shots in the field on game. Shots that most hunters could never make, without lots of practice. And trust me, these shots were no fluke but come form pure, natural shooting ability that some folks seem to have.



So here is the question, what do you expect from your scoped hunting rifles as far as accuracy goes? Are you a MOA hunter or a MO pie plate type of hunter? Are you a factory ammo hunter or pure reloader?
 
I realize that its not necessary for where/what I'm hunting, but I like to get mine shooting at least MOA. I have only been handloading for a year, but definitely can see the benefits of a good homemade load with premium bullets. I'll never buy another box of factory ammo again, thats for sure.:)

As a side benefit, you can get some good deals on rifles chambered in obscure or expensive cartridges, because the factory-load crowd don't want to buy the ammo.
 
1.5 moa at 100 yards, 3-4 Moa at 300 yards.
When I goose the velocity for no good reason I expect less.

Typical ranges for me in my hunting areas do not present to many shots past 300. But i am 100% sure i can make the shot at 300 under any weather condition.
 
Good accuracy in our rifles and ammunition is a confidence builder, and the quest for such is a great excuse for handloading and shooting in the off season. The intrinsic accuracy of our precision rifles and carefully crafted ammunition has little to do with hits in the field. I am not satisfied unless my rifles shoot tight groups, but the question is, "Can I make use of this level of accuracy in the field"?

I can shoot nearly as well prone as I can from the bench, but off hand 4 MOA is all I can hope for. If there's a gusty wind pushing me around, you can double that. I don't do bad kneeling or sitting, but calling it 2 MOA would be generous. Lets say given average conditions in the field, I shoot 3 MOA. At 100 yards all of my bullets land within 1.5" of my point of aim, and on most days I can keep my shots within the acceptable limits to ensure hits on game out to 300 yards. Stuart Edward White, renowned as one of the best game shots of all time, was said to be able to keep all of his bullets within 2" of his point of aim, regardless of position, or level or exertion with an iron sighted Springfield sporting rifle. This I cannot do, but would very much like to.

For those who live where they can shoot 24/7, I have a challenge. Put up a target at 150 yards. Each day for 10 days (I'd prefer a month but that might not be realistic) fire one cold bore round at that target and every day shoot from a different position, including off hand, regardless of weather (provided that fog or snow does not prevent seeing the target). It might be interesting to see what the results are.
 
The never ending search for ulimate accuracy from a rifle will drive you crazy, yet many of us continue to push towards ultimate disappointment. Being a reloader and varmint hunter...I push and push to have ALL my rifles shoot their absolute best....anything over MOA is unacceptable and I really prefer the bullet holes touching eachother on target @ 100 yards. Is this needed to harvest deer sized game...probably not...but hey to each their own. This year will see a more balanced investment in time between bench shooting and actual off hand shooting. Actual performance data from 50 - 500 yards will also be carefully recorded once loads are finalized. I now start to put merit in the saying" beware of the hunter with just one gun"....chances are that the gun has become very familiar to him/her and they stand less chance of error if time has been invested in practice.
 
Confidence in your ability to take down the game with said rifle is more important than accuracy in my opinion. Confidence is gained by shooting said rifle! I have a rifle that probably stuggles to get to 1 1/2" but my deer hunting shots are rarely over 200 yds with most well less than 100'. I have confidence in that gun, it is not the best shooter I have, but I know if given a decent shot there's gonna be meat in the pot. Like Davey I have seen guys that seem like there lucky to hit a backstop at the range but when a deer presents itself it rarely gets away :cool: I don't understand it but I've seen it!
 
I am not really happy with a gun until it will shoot MOA or better from a bench, at least out to 200 yards, farther than that it's me rather than the gun. For hunting it's not necessary to be that accurate but it's a confidence thing.
 
My Golden Eagle 300Win mag is a sub MOA rifle. I have full confidence in it out to 500yds.

My Winchester Wrangler 16" barrel lever gun in 32 spl is my "go to" lever gun out to 150yds. IF I get the sights on anything out to that range, it's done.

I decided that I would not use anything but Leupold or Swarovski years ago. havent looked back since. Quality optics do make a difference.

I use factory ammo 100% of the time
 
senior said:
Like Davey I have seen guys that seem like there lucky to hit a backstop at the range but when a deer presents itself it rarely gets away :cool: I don't understand it but I've seen it!
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Not quite what I was saying. These guys I speak of are damn good shots without much practice at all, on targets or game. Some guys just have natural shooting ability, no matter what rifle they hold or how much they practice.

I guess that could be another topic though...
 
I can comfortably shoot 3 MOA off hand with my 1 MOA scoped rifles. So my shooting skills, or the shy of it, add 2 MOA to whatever I get off the bench.

For load development, I aim for 1 MOA or better. Any rifle exceeding 1.5 MOA will be disposed.

My ability to shoot on a give day depends on how well I can control my heart beating and breathing. Practicing with hand guns helps to steady my hands a lot. My advice is to practice, practice and practice more.
 
Practice shooting off-hand or in field positions. Ditch the bench rests and sandbags. Measure your best group. That's how accurate your rifle must be when you're working up a load on sandbags, at the bench.

Even the most inaccurate rifles out there are more accurate than MOST shooters under 'real-world' shooting conditions.

Too much fuss is made over accuracy. Though I'll be the first to admit I'm not totally happy until I can shoot cloverleaf groups. Though I don't try to convince myself it's necessary.

Even for varmint rigs; how accurate do you NEED, anyway? How accurately can YOU shoot under field conditions? Again, I'll keep poking away at load development and accurization until I can get cloverleaf groups (which is forever, with some guns); but realistically, sub 3" at 300 yards is quite adequate for the most part, and usually quite easily achievable
 
My scoped rifle shoots around 2 moa and yes, I do reload. I consider it more than enough since 95% of my shots will be under 100 yards (and most of that even under 50). So the need for superb accuracy is not for me. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to shoot moa or less but I don't need to so I dont spend as much time playing with my reloads. My next step now is to take the gun off the bench and see how I shoot that that distance as the gun is still sorta new-ish for me.

Now for my unscoped rem 7600, if I can hit that pieplate, standing shots, at 50 yards, I know it's a dead deer in the woods (and I hit it 95% of the time). Benched, with open sights, I get about 2" groups at 50 yards.
 
So here is the question, what do you expect from your scoped hunting rifles as far as accuracy goes? Are you a MOA hunter or a MO pie plate type of hunter? Are you a factory ammo hunter or pure reloader?
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Yes, I expect MOA accuracy out of my hunting rifles and work at it until I get it. Either I'm lucky or I just buy the right rifle/scope and easily get what I'm after. For the most part, I reload. The exceptions are my 30-30 and sometimes my .223 (but we're not talking varminters here). I do use premium bullets, but not always. For example, I use plain old Hornady out of my .270WSM, and .444, and Barnes TSX out of my .338 and .375 probably because I shoot the 270 and 444 more.
 
I know what you mean about natural shooting ability. Some have it most don't. It also seems that the guys that grew up shooting since they were children are normally much better shots on game than the guy that never hunted or picked up a rifle until they were 20.




My accuracy standards are not situated around perfect bench shooting, and when I call a rifle 2MOA shooter it means it ALWAYS hits within an inch of were I expect it to. NOT a 1/2 group 2" to the left of were I was hitting last week. There are few rifles that can do this and even fewer that I am capable of using to do it. This is part one.


Part two is... IF I can't pick up that rifle and hit were I want to off hand it is useless to me. Just because a rifle will shoot to the same point of impact every day in different conditions doesn't mean I can automatically hit with it. Almost all of my shooting at game is well with in 150 yards off hand. The real test of a rifle, for me at least, is how well you actually hit with it.



I have a SKS rifle that I have put 3000 rounds through. It has a horrid trigger, bad sights and if you are lucky you can get a nice 4" group at 100 yards off the bench. When I was shooting that rifle a lot I was able to break clay pigeons at 100 yards off hand and sitting positions with surprising regularity. Theoreticly the rifle was not "accurate" enough to do this and did not possess the traits that would make it a good off hand shooter. BUT The reality was that I could hit with that rifle simply due to having put so many shots, almost all of hand, through it. To me that rifle was "accurate"
 
This subject can be beaten to death from every angle possible, but the fact remains that a 2 MOA rifle will take 95% of all game that is shot at in North America. That being said, some of us hate to take a rifle that will not shoot MOA (off the bench) hunting. I am one of those, but have a realistic side. I look at it this way. The accurate rifle gives me confidence. First shot from a cold barrel is very important! But if I know my rifle is a consistent moa shooter, it takes one of the variables out of the picture under less than ideal conditions (an offhand shot, for example) I think it is extremely short sighted to fail to practice a lot in "field" positions, since very little game is shot from a benchrest. Additionally, you may actually get some nasty surprises as to POI from field positions compared to benchrest. You need to know what to expect. I feel that prone comes fairly close to bench ability in my personal case, but prone is not always possible in the field, so sitting, kneeling and offhand, as well as resting on a treetrunk (you choose the object) are all positions I practice using. Then I set personal maximum distances I will shoot at game from various positions. So far, it has worked for me. How you approach the accuracy issue is your choice, as long as you limit your shots to those that are within your ability to humanely dispatch the animal you are hunting. Regards, Eagleye.
 
First shot from a cold barrel is very important! But if I know my rifle is a consistent moa shooter, it takes one of the variables out of the picture under less than ideal conditions (an offhand shot, for example) I think it is extremely short sighted to fail to practice a lot in "field" positions, since very little game is shot from a benchrest. Additionally, you may actually get some nasty surprises as to POI from field positions compared to benchrest. You need to know what to expect.
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I couldnt agree more Eagleye. Once I am happy with where a particular rifle is shooting, off to hills I go to practice more. Over and over again. I find this the best way for me to practice and gain confidence with the rifle and myself.

Some guys shoot a few rounds at paper and then head out hunting. Not for me, but to each thier own...
 
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