Scopes without parallax adjustment question.

Dogleg said:
Most scopes with fixed parallax are, none-the-less still adjustable. That's kind of handy when you want to run a big game scope on a rimfire, or just aren't happy with the way things are.

Using Leupold as an example; look closely at the objective lens housing. The gold ring is actually just a washer; and everything in front of it is just a glorified thread protector. Un-thread that and the lens-carrier assembly is exposed. You will see two little notches where a hacksaw blade makes a good improvised adjustment tool. You may be able to just spin it by hand though. Turning the threaded tube outward brings the parallax in closer, screwing it in the opposite. A quarter turn is a lot. Put the thread protector back on and you're done.
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Dogleg is telling you something on different levels here.

He's right of course.

Just be very careful how you go about making the adjustments described and make some sort of witness mark, that won't get rubbed off, where the original setting is.

AO is basicly taking the focus between the objective and ocular lens and taking out the distortion, which is not detectable, other than your reticle moves when your eye moves.

Keeping your eye in the same position for every shot is a pipe dream. Only a few one offs can do it well.

If your scope has parallax, which is usually very noticeable at very close distances or very long distances, one way to keep the distortion down is to move your eye back as far as possible, which will reduce the field of view but will basicly be doing the same thing as adjusting the objective lens, other than you don't have to adjust anything to what you may only need on a very odd occaision.

If you're a match shooter, an adjustable objective is very handy.

If you're a long range shooter on occaision and understand how your AO works and how it affects your POI after it's adjusted then it's desirable.

If you're a normal range hunter, who keeps their shots around 300 meters or less, it's doubtful AO is going to do anything for you that can't be worked out by keeping your eye further back from the ocular lens, while in the field.

Most hunting scopes are set to be parallax free at 100-200 meters, depending on the brand and the mood of the person on the assembly line.

If you're a varmint hunter, rabbits, gophers, coyotes and such then AO may be handy for you as well.

For 99.9% of the shots taken by 99% of hunters, AO on a scope is just something else that can go wrong when you least need it to happen.

A couple of years ago, I watched a young shooter, my grandson, miss the opportunity to take an easy 150 meter shot on a nice WT buck, because he convinced himself that he had to adjust his parallax.

I like long range shooting, I like accurate rifles and played the Bench Rest game for quite a few years. It's addicting. So is the accumulation of "uneccessary" bells and whistles, such as level bubbles on your deer/moose rifle that will be used at ranges under 300 meters.

A deer/moose isn't going to notice if the bullet that takes it down is a couple of inches to the left/right or up/down, as long as it's in the kill zone.
 
I was looking through a couple of scopes at CT ,a vx 3 hd 4.5 -14 no parallax adjustment and $300 Burris 4.5- 16 front parallax adjustment.
At about 50 yards I couldn’t focus in the big letters on a box , using the Leupold but the Burris I could focus perfect.

I know this don’t matter on big game but it’s still annoying when a $300 scope has clearer glass than a $1000 scope ,
 
I suspect is what makers key in on - scopes need substantial erectors, etc. to be durable - can not see that - so spend time and effort on the coatings on the optics - what many consumers will use to evaluate which to purchase. No need to read instructions how to set up or to focus - just compare side by side as to image and make purchase decision - most consumers will not care about how it works - what went into it - difference between a rough or polished bias spring, etc.

I am admittedly "old school" from the days when it was an effort to finally get a scope "sighted in" - so did not adjust turrets for years - learned "kentucky windage", and to hold off for elevation. Worked great for hunting. Gets confused by stories of 800 yard gong shooting though - as if user now wants to be able to twirl turret for every shot, and scope must have variable power adjustment to be useful. Has not been my experience over past 50 years of shooting game animals - but maybe I got it all wrong ...
 
Potashminer said:
I suspect is what makers key in on - scopes need substantial erectors, etc. to be durable - can not see that - so spend time and effort on the coatings on the optics - what many consumers will use to evaluate which to purchase. No need to read instructions how to set up or to focus - just compare side by side as to image and make purchase decision - most consumers will not care about how it works - what went into it - difference between a rough or polished bias spring, etc.

I am admittedly "old school" from the days when it was an effort to finally get a scope "sighted in" - so did not adjust turrets for years - learned "kentucky windage", and to hold off for elevation. Worked great for hunting. Gets confused by stories of 800 yard gong shooting though - as if user now wants to be able to twirl turret for every shot, and scope must have variable power adjustment to be useful. Has not been my experience over past 50 years of shooting game animals - but maybe I got it all wrong ...
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What distance are you shooting using Kentucky wind age? What caliber.

A $1000 scope should have an adjustable parallax IMO.
$1000 to look through a cloudy glass at 50 yards and 200 yards and out ? No need of it.

I don’t know if the cost savings are that great by getting rid of the parallax adjustment, but it sure stopped me from buying it.
 
45C - perhaps we are from different experience. I struggle to recall even a single shot at unwounded game that I have taken at more than 250 yards - might have been once - and that deer did so die, although it was hit in the neck when I thought I was aiming to hit its chest. I tend to prefer to use stuff that is not "adjustable" - so I hone triggers, etc. - military Mauser type - two stage - never break or get gummed up, but take effort to get set properly. My M8-12X Leupold and my SWFA 12X seldom get the AO moved when hunting. (sort of a lie - I have never taken them hunting!!!) When a deer becomes visible at 175 yards, I want to just shoot it - not have to adjust or twirl or play with stuff. Our son drove me nuts at that - always looking down and adjusting parallax or power or something when it was time to take the shot.

My hunting rifles wear mostly Leupold scopes these days, although I used to have multiple Weaver and Bushnell - so M8-3X on 9.3x62, M8-6X on 338 Win Mag, several M8-4X on 30-06 and 308 Win Mag. The little 243 Win has a Leupold 2-7x and the 22-250 has a 3-9 "Compact", from back in the day.

As far as "caliber" - I have used 165 grain 308 Win and 150 grain 7x57 mostly for white tail and mule deer - 225 grain 338 Win Mag for two elk, 165 grain in 30-06 for a single antler-less mule deer tag. I carried a 303 British for several years as a teenager, but never got anything with that one. And a large number - many hundreds, perhaps 1,000's - of gophers with .22 rim fire Long Rifle - from very close (5 feet) to very far away (100 yards plus).

I have never owned or used a 7mm Rem Mag, although I now have a 7x61 S&H, and I do finally own one 270 Win, which I have never taken hunting.
 
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I can understand the lack of parallax on a fixed 4x , not really needed but a 14 x ? I think it’s needed.

No Deer around here but there’s lots of Moose.

At 400 yards , there’s plenty of time to adjust parallax

I usually have my scope set on 4x but every now and again I like to look at the animals that are out a bit further.
It helps when you can adjust the parallax.

I just don’t understand why Leupold dropped the parallax on the VX3 HD when it used to be more common on the older Leupold models.
Did they just realize that they don’t need anymore?
 
45C said:
What distance are you shooting using Kentucky wind age? What caliber.

A $1000 scope should have an adjustable parallax IMO.
$1000 to look through a cloudy glass at 50 yards and 200 yards and out ? No need of it.

I don’t know if the cost savings are that great by getting rid of the parallax adjustment, but it sure stopped me from buying it.
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Focus and parallax are two different things. Broadly speaking focus is for adjusting the scope to your eye, while parallax is for adjusting the scope to the target. Most scopes are focus-adjustable at the eyepiece end of things, regardless of whether they have parallax adjustment or not.

As for why Leupold dropped parallax on the vx3, I can think of at least 4 possible reasons: Robustness (more moving parts=more things to break), cost (more features is more expensive), weight (more features weigh more), or complexity (not everyone wants a parallax adjustment - for most hunters having parallax adjustment isn't necessary, and its one more thing that you can have set wrong and screw up your shot.)
 
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No matter how much I turned the focus ring on the Ocular piece , I couldn’t get a crisp picture through the scope at 50 yards.

But the cheaper Burris cleared up perfectly,when I adjusted the Parallax .
 
So what I’m gathering is that parallax adjustment is a waste of money on a scope,
Providing your shots are between 100 to 300 yards and you don’t move your head around?

What’s the point of higher magnification scopes then?
 
45C said:
So what I’m gathering is that parallax adjustment is a waste of money on a scope,
Providing your shots are between 100 to 300 yards and you don’t move your head around?

What’s the point of higher magnification scopes then?
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I wouldn't make a blanket statement like that, there are plenty of factors such as weight, robustness and cost that go into it, but you're on the right track. A quick google search suggests you're looking at a maximum of ~1.1" of parallax error per 100yds of shooting, so if you've got a scope set at 100, and are shooting at 300 the most you can be off due to parallax is slightly over 2". Now, I haven't researched this heavily so take that with a grain of salt, but long story short if you're clean missing game at 300 its not because of parallax.

Edit - https://www.lelandwest.com/parallax...onid=86C8E3783217B21DAA1F8E91980E1ED7.cfusion

This was posted before, but if you punch some numbers into that you'll get an idea of how far out your target can be.

Here are the results for a 40mm objective, set to 150m fixed parallax:


Range(yards) Error(mm) Error(mil) Error(inches) Error(moa)
100 6.667 0.073 0.262 0.251
150 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
200 6.667 0.036 0.262 0.125
250 13.333 0.058 0.525 0.201
300 20.000 0.073 0.787 0.251
350 26.667 0.083 1.050 0.286
400 33.333 0.091 1.312 0.313

Only 1.3 inches at 400 if your scope is set to 150, goes up to 2.362" of error at 400 if the same scope is set to 100. (Compare that to wind drift at 400 with a 10mph crosswind, which is 10+ inches depending on the bullet)
 
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What is the point of higher magnification? - is maybe the game that one plays?? If you missed a deer or moose at 250 yards with 4X, you would probably have also missed with a 16X. But maybe if you want to put 10 rounds into the "teens" at 100 yards from a bench, might want a 36X to do that. I suspect marketers and sales stories would like to keep us a bit off balance about what it is we "need", for doing "what"...
 
45C said:
I can understand the lack of parallax on a fixed 4x , not really needed but a 14 x ? I think it’s needed.

No Deer around here but there’s lots of Moose.

At 400 yards , there’s plenty of time to adjust parallax

I usually have my scope set on 4x but every now and again I like to look at the animals that are out a bit further.
It helps when you can adjust the parallax.

I just don’t understand why Leupold dropped the parallax on the VX3 HD when it used to be more common on the older Leupold models.
Did they just realize that they don’t need anymore?
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Unless I'm way off, Leupold makes 4.5-14 in both non AO and AO. If you don't want one; buy the other.
 
I don't like adjustable parallax on a deer hunting rifle. I like to keep it simple and that has worked for me. Even shooting gophers. One pops up at 15 yards, another at 75, then you take a shot out to 125 yards, messing around with focus and parallax just leads to frustration for me. But shooting targets at a fixed distance, it's great. Set it and forget it.
 
I haven't seen the need for parallax adjustment on your typical 3 to 9 hunting scope. Unless there put on a rimfire. 9x and focused crosshairs at 30 yards don't work without.

Scopes over 10x should have it for best results. Mine all do and will.
That being said most of my light rifles wear 3 to 9s cause there much more affordable, less to go wrong, lighter and I get along fine with 9x for deer and coyotes out to 500 yards plus. Yes more would be better sometimes but its not worth the cost and weight to me. Even my light barrel varmint rifles wear 3 to 9s. I took a rabbit at 463 yards with one a few months ago and could go alot further before I feel that I "must have" more magnification.

For me heavy barrel rifles deserve more scope and parallax adjustment is a must on heigher magnification scopes.

Same for rimfires. They get used from 15 yards to 200 plus. Parallax adjustment besides eliminating parallax also keeps the crosshairs in focus at really close targets. I have one 22 that does not have parallax adjustment. It was built for the gopher patch. I used to have a burris 3 to 9 x40 on it which is essentially a centerfire scope with 100 yard fixed parallax adjustment. At 30 yards you were limited to about 5x. At 50 yards about 7 or 8. Past that 9 was good to go and it got used out to 175 all the time. Really clear scopes for me.

I replaced it with a nikon prostaff dedicated rimfire 3 to 9(almost went with the 4 to 12 but they had no parallax adjustment on it!) Which have there parallax set to 50 yards. Very nice in close, and at 9x the crosshairs are perfectly in focus with no visible parallax at 50 yards when you move your head around the eyebox. However, cause of the fixed parallax 9x at past 120 yards or so you run into crosshair focus issues again. Real annoying. It will get replaced with a parallax adjustable scope one day.
 
Set your own parallax. Loosen the front objective locking ring and the turn objective either way while testing for parallax. Also you will find some in the eyepiece focus ring. find you happy medium for your hunting distances.
 
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