scoping a Sharps?

jjohnwm

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Well, I am forced to admit that my eyes are now enough of a PITA that using iron sights...even apertures...just isn't working out as it once did. I had a very difficult time hunting last year with my C.Sharps 1875 which currently wears a micrometer rear sight; it has been getting more and more challenging each year and I think I am now done.

But I'm just not ready to throw in the towel and sell the rifle; I've had it for too long to make that decision lightly. So I'm considering mounting a HiLux or other vintage-style scope on the rifle, but this is uncharted territory for me. I can drill-and-tap "normal" rifles and have no problem mounting "normal" scopes, but the intricacies of the various mounting systems and scopes used on vintage rifle designs like this are a whole different animal.

Can anybody point me towards a Canadian retailer for this stuff? Preferably one who knows the territory and can make useful recommendations. I'd also love to find some literature or websites that cover the basics of this idea; most of what I have found seems to assume that I already know the ins-and-outs and the lingo, and so much of it just adds to the confusion. Any help would be appreciated.
 
I don't think there are any Canadian retailers, but I can give you some advice. I use scopes on a number of Sharps, and Winchester 1885 rifles. The first scope I ever bought was a Hi Lux Malcolm scope. The mounts were absolute garbage. The scopes I use now are the MVA B5, MVA 2000, 3000 series, and the DZ Arms scopes. They are all good. Some people I know don't like the fine crosshairs on the MVA scopes, but I believe they can provide you with thicker ones as their new higher powered scope use them by default.

As far as getting one, I'd recommend ordering one from the manufacturer and using Prophet River to import it. I think that costs $50 from what I remember.

As far as mounting goes, they all work roughly the same. Two scope blocks mounted with two screws each. Dovetail versions of the MVA longer scopes are available. I've never used those.

I hope this is useful to you.

Chris.
 
I have had to tackle the same issue for the last few years as well with a bunch of old leverguns & a couple SS's. I hjave used a # of different approaches from elegantly & tastefully done to rudimentary design& functionality... both will work but how long your shots are & how fashionable you want to be in the field is your choice. One thing is certain after a # of trials& errors, with a straight stocked rifle that is compatible with the original barrel sights, a cheek riser is essential to good scope usage success. I have use 18 and 32 inch brass tube scopes, modern bolt rifle scopes from fixed power to 6-24 and am now mostly using red dot's on all my 1800's lever guns but they could be used on a Sharps very easily as well...they "aint perty" but they work and keep me being able to shoot my old guns...hell, I've even mounted a bow sight on a Marlin Cowboy and can shoot "hunting accuracy" out to 300 yrds with it without changing "cheek weld" from 50 to 300 but that should be a different thread all together.
As there are a lot of us "old bastards" in the same predicament I will take the time to offer up my experiences with my experimenting.

Brass Tube scopes; I have two, an 18" with dovetail block mounts and "Unertyl" style adjustment ring at the front mount, and a 32" with the "Malcolm style"(currently mounted on an 1871 RB) vernier mount ( the original mount base was a "screw needed" type but I manufactured a dovetail mount myself). Both are 4X. Both mounting systems work satisfactory, the Malcolm is heavy but somewhat easier to "O" than the unertyl style. The Malcolm has a very much larger adjusting range if very long range shooting is your game. The thing with both these scopes is that they have no "parallax" resistance at all, they are simple and just a tube with glass & a solid cross hair inside, it is for this reason a solid cheek rest & weld is essential to repetitive accuracy...no mater how you sight the gun in , if your neck posture/line of eyball sight through the scope changes point of impact will always change also. I have never used these scopes for extreme long range but have killed deer with each of them from 80 yrds out to 245 with a 45-70. They have limitations but with some attention to detail they work admirably.

Modern scopes; I have mounted modern scopes on !890's Marlin & Winchester lever guns & modern Sharps/RB actions with success as well but when I tried to market the mounts I met with all sorts of derision from wholesalers. I will admit that they "weren't perty", a bit cumbersome but they worked and I have shot 200 yrd 3" cast bullet groups with a # of 130 yr old rifles using them...groups that I cant even see the bulls-eye at that range without magnification.
The problem with easily mounting modern multi-powered scopes to a tang rifle is that they are heavy and, although a single point attachment to the original tang screw holes works sufficiently with operator handling considerations, a double point mounting is superior. Because of the simplicity & convenience (everybody should have an old scope kicking around) and the fact that shot distance is only regulated by your own skill I think this is still the best option in use but not marketability LOL. Another drawback is that all old Winchesters are top eject and a scope over the ejection port sort of messes with the "rack& throw" option...it basically turns them into a single shot and brass have to be finger-picked out of it...but I was still shooting them accurately and that's what counts in my book.

"Dot scopes"; This is my current "spearmint " and is going quite nicely if 125 yrs or so is going to be your limit on a deer. I should temper this by saying bot the dot scopes I have are of the "inexpensive variety that have no magnification at all, I have never looked through one with magnification but understand they are out there. The convenient thing about these scopes is that they are very light & recoil doesn't bounce them around on the mount the way a much heavier modern scope is. For this reason mounts can be very easily made out of aluminum and single-point mounted to the tang the same as any vernier sight is. For this reason the mounts are very easily made with apiece of alum angle, a hacksaw and a hand drill, the only thing that most folks will have to by is a piece of Picatiny rail blank( You only need 2-2.5", easily found in Canada). I am lucky in that I have a shop fairly well equipped with hobby machining tools and can build a mount in an hour but someone with the tolls mentioned above could easily cut one out in an afternoon. So far I have used these "dot scopes" on paper & "Cowboy" sillywet targets out to 100 yards and they work well ( paper at 100 requires at least a 6" bull to be seen)... by "works well" I mean very much better than even a vernier sight at that distance for my vision quality.
I haven't use the dots for any hunting yet but plan on using my 38-55 with one this year for deer. I just spent a very enjoyable afternoon yesterday with a heard of Mule Deer feeding around the house for a couple of hours. I stat inside, using a chair back for a rest and just tried both dot scopes out at different ranges on those deer. they varied from 60 yard out to 125, out to 125 with a rest, I would have very confidently "rib hit" any of those animals. Out a bit further than 125, I could have "front 1/4" shot one but the certainty of not hitting a front shoulder and ruining a pile of meat would have kept me from trying the shot. one thing I will mention if you are thinking of a dot scope, one of mine is just "red" and the other is red or green, shooting at white paper or metal targets it doesn't make much difference but while scoping those deer in different lighting conditions, I never buy another with "just red" as the green is much more usable on any type target.

This is long enough and I will close with again mentioning the importance of an elevated cheek piece for any quality scope use on a straight stocked rifle.

...one more brief point, I will not modify or change any aspect of any of my "original rifles" to mount a scope.
 
I wanted a Malcolm 6x, but Wolverine had the 3x in stock, so I went with that.
Mounting holes were a simple job for my Smith.

A year or two back, I went to the dollar store and bought sets of cheapo glasses in every power at $1.75 each.
My shooting boxes have two different ones for pistol, and different ones for iron sight rifles and scoped rifles.
Depending on how my eyes are that day, or the light, I might use a slightly different one.

They are flimsy and break, so I just go and buy 2 or 3 more.
It's a fraction of a percent of the value of the rifle, but let's me shoot so much more.
 
Slug , you bring up a good point that I didn't mention. Corrective lenses seem to work quite well with the Dot scopes. With my eye and no lenses, I can see the barrel sights well enough but any target further than 20 yrds is just a blur and with corrective lenses, the targets downrange are clear but the front sight is "almost not there". With corrective lenses & a dot, I can see the target clearly thru the non-magnified scope lenses, but the illuminated "dot" is also quite visible & usable .
 
Many thanks to everyone for all the tips and ideas, and my apologies for lack of acknowledging all of it sooner; been stuck up at camp for weeks and just can't thumb-type on a phone.

Lots of good info here that I need to consider. I'm a bit frustrated that my rifle has three sets of iron sights...the original open sights, a tang-mounted aperture (which I got from gunlaker...thanks, Chris!), and a C.Sharps mid-range vernier...and yet I can no longer use any of 'em effectively. I have a cobbled-up 3-slot Pic base that utilizes the rear dovetail slot and allows me to mount an Aimpoint dot sight; it works, quite well actually, but the long and the short of it is that I just don't enjoy using the gun that way.

I have read several sources stating that the HiLux/Malcolm mounts are not very good, as you mentioned above, Chris. I was considering them only because they were available in stock at Wolverine, but I wasn't really too keen on the whole "vintage" scope thing from a shooting perspective. They may look okay, but for field use they seem pretty clunky. I want to use this gun for a bit more hunting while I still can, and I find that a big heavy gun wearing a 30-inch barrel is already awkward enough without sticking a fragile 30-inch scope on top of it.

It is starting to look like the choice will be either to sell the rifle, or to simply drill/tap and install a Weaver-style rail and then mount a modern scope in modern rings. I shot a Shiloh 1874 set up that way many years ago, and I remember thinking back then that it would be a cold day in hell before I would ever butcher my gun that way. A few decades later...it's getting cold. I don't love the idea of drilling holes in the Sharps, but it's a modern one, not an original, so not the end of the world if I do. Also, it's an 1875 rather than a '74, so maybe not quite so incongruous-looking.

Since I already have a Ruger #1 .45-70 26-inch-barrel scoped rifle, which I quite enjoy shooting, I just have to decide if I want another functionally-similar rifle. Decisions, decisions...
 
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