Scout Rifle Fail?

MrPuffyPants said:
Yea. The more I look around the more I think the LPVO crowd has it right.

I will see if the retailer will allow me to upgrade to a more expensive model since I have not tried to mount it and it is basically new in the box only brought out for these pictures :)
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Hot take: Jeff Cooper is dead and so is his rifle. But his philosophy of use lives on. Don’t worry about the kit as much as the skill set behind a general purpose rifle.
Does it need back up sights? No.
Does it need a forward optic? No.
Does it need to be CRF? No.
Does it need a to be a curtain size? No.
There’s an awesome video from Lucky Gunner on YouTube that makes my brain happy on this topic.
Ammunition and training makes my rifle a scout rifle.
 
I had a Scout for some time and played around with the mountings. I was enamored by the concept - adored the period in which it was created. So I went down the path. Bought a Vortex scout to try it out.

Was it a nice idea to throw up the scope with both eyes open? Sure. But vignetting was rubbish, and I have pretty natural indexing. But I forced myself to love it. It was an unhealthy relationship. But then I started lusting after a clean picture, so I went outside the union and tried a red dot. Immediate sparks.

But I missed a little magnification. So I tried the unthinkable. I tried a traditional mounting position with a low power scope. At low mag it was fast. Vignetting was a non-issue. And at that point in the relationship, I was mature enough to admit that I was in love with an idea, not the outcome.

An LVPO on that Bergara would be a real marriage. Something to grow into. Something to give you the spark. Something that'll last.

Happy Valentine's Day! Buy yourself something you'll love ;)
 
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I tried three different scout rifle set ups. Maybe even four? Guess how many I own now? None.

The concept and name on paper evokes the imagination, but because of the leaps in optical performance and mag ranges/reticles/turrets it does slightly render it all moot. If you really want something close range you can always offset a red dot on a MPVO if you must.

I think a scout .22LR would be a fun experiment (no, not you issc spa), but on a whole I think the larger caliber experiment is the 8 track player of rifles these days.

Op i think you’ll be better served with the lpvo/mpvo option.
 
Cooper didn't invent the forward mounting scope - Germans already used them in WW2.

My scout rifle at home is a sporter No4 with cut down barrel with a Bad ace scope mount allowing the use of iron sights or scope. Don't need stripper clips just pickup a couple extra magazines.
 
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geologist said:
There are advantages to IER fixed power scout mounted scopes over LPVOs.

I find my Leupold 2.5x IER in low QD rings very fast to acquire with both eyes open. Faster than my 1x6 and 1x8 LPVOs. It's shotgun like.

It's lighter weight than most LPVOs.

I suspect that it is tougher than most LPVOs.
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I agree that if you go LER you go with a fix scope and not a variable. LPVO are bulky being usually 30 or 35mm tubes and larger bulkier turrets, just not my type of scope!
 
Believe what you want 🤷‍♂️ but mounting a scope to a rifle barrel is NOT CONDUCIVE. to Accuracy ! 🤮
Much better to mount your scope to the receiver with Quick detachment rings and use permanent barrel sights !
I used a quick detachment Red Dot on my Ruger scout rifle and it was Great for up to 150 yards 👍JMO

If not a red dot a 1-4 1.5 - 5 etc would work Well . A scout rifle is not intended as a LR arm 🤷‍♂️ JMO
 
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remington jim said:
Believe what you want 🤷‍♂️ but mounting a scope to a rifle barrel is NOT CONCLUSIVE to Accuracy ! 🤮
Much better to mount your scope to the receiver with Quick detachment rings and use permanent barrel sights !
I used a quick detachment Red Dot on my Ruger scout rifle and it was Great for up to 150 yards 👍JMO

If not a red dot a 1-4 1.5 - 5 etc would work Well . A scout rifle is not intended as a LR arm 🤷‍♂️ JMO
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I'm CONCLUDING you meant to say CONDUCIVE. Damn autocorrect!
 
I bought a Savage 110 scout rifle more or less for fun action shooting on the range. I ended up buying the same scope for the rifle as the targets started getting smaller in our matches. I thought I would like it quite a bit but find the rifle just feels awkward and rather foward heavy. I ended up taking off the rail and going back to iron sites, which was my original intention with the rifle. Perhaps if I could find a lighter scope it would make things a lot different. Mind you the 110 scout has a fair amount of heft start with. Good luck with your quest.
 
geologist said:
There are advantages to IER fixed power scout mounted scopes over LPVOs.

I find my Leupold 2.5x IER in low QD rings very fast to acquire with both eyes open. Faster than my 1x6 and 1x8 LPVOs. It's shotgun like.

It's lighter weight than most LPVOs.

I suspect that it is tougher than most LPVOs.
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I agree. I run only Leupold 1.5-4x20 units on my RAR carbines. I've used me old Weaver K2.5 on numerous rifles & shotguns without hitches as well.
The fixed low power scopes offer the the above mentioned shotgun like handling performance fer me & I'd love to have a fresh 2.5 IER Leupy with
a post crosshair reticle like the Weaver K2.5's had.

The Leupold VX-Freedom scope as shown weighs only 9.6 oz compared to LPVO units with battery lit reticle option.
Me RAR 450 sm.jpg
 
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MrPuffyPants said:
So i started a journey to create a scout rifle for myself and thought that I was being very clever and modern by choosing a Bergara rifle in 308 with a lightweight carbon barrel. Then I picked up a scout scope and headed down to my local gunsmith to have it mounted up. Imagine my surprise when I was told that forward mounting setups drill ad tap the barrel itself and you cannot do that with a carbon fibre barrel. :(
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It is possible to attach rings or a rail to a carbon fiber rifle barrel, but your average gunsmith is definitely going to tell you that it cannot be done. At the price point you are wanting it to be done at it won't be possible either.

For example multiple slots can be milled, think long keymod or m-lok style, to attach and adapt to a rail. It is possible to drill and tap as well, but I am not sure how strong tapped holes are in carbon fiber either, it's extremely strong but is brittle. Definitely would want them to be thread milled not tapped. You can also turn sections of the barrel down some, then split band and pin them or something similar. Lots of ways to do it, just not common or easy.

Anyway you look at it, not cheap, and pretty hard to find one one to do it, or who knows how to work with that carbon fiber. But it is definitely not impossible, it's just hard and expensive to do. And then who knows the effects it will have on your harmonics, could be quite detrimental.

I personally see no big benefits that outweigh the drawbacks of having the scope mounted that far forward.
 
Meroh said:
Only if you can utilize stripper clips. Not much else going for them. (I had one on a Swedish M38 short rifle with a BadAce no drill mount. ( a true scout), accurate enough, but I put the original iron back on, and am much happier.
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It's on my 1895GS work carbine so no strippers :)

It's for short range stopping in a field carryable rifle.

Another benefit of IER is there is zero chance of scoping yourself when firing very heavy recoiling loads under great stress.

I have another work rifle, a .375 H&H with a long eye relief Leupold 1.5x5x20 that has not scoped me yet but I think about it.
 
geologist said:
There are advantages to IER fixed power scout mounted scopes over LPVOs.

I find my Leupold 2.5x IER in low QD rings very fast to acquire with both eyes open. Faster than my 1x6 and 1x8 LPVOs. It's shotgun like.

It's lighter weight than most LPVOs.

I suspect that it is tougher than most LPVOs.
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Agree. And yes, a long cantilever mount will solve tje OP's scout scope mounting issues. - dan
 
geologist said:
It's on my 1895GS work carbine so no strippers :)

It's for short range stopping in a field carryable rifle.

Another benefit of IER is there is zero chance of scoping yourself when firing very heavy recoiling loads under great stress.

I have another work rifle, a .375 H&H with a long eye relief Leupold 1.5x5x20 that has not scoped me yet but I think about it.
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Forgive me if I misunderstand your post - if the rifle is for short range stopping (I'm thinking an aggressive pissed bear here) why do you want a scope? I would think irons or a red dot would be preferable in such a situation. Truly curious.
 
I think if Jeff Cooper was alive today and had more experience with LPVO's with red dots and easily obtainable, relatively inexpensive and reliable magazines like AICS pattern, his scout rifle concepts would change quite a bit.

The forward mounted low power scope was to facilitate the use of stripper clips AND fast acquisition of target with both eyes open.

A 1-6/8x LPVO mounted traditionally (especially with a red dot reticle) is probably faster than a scout scope and it's easy to keep both eyes open. Good magazines are superior in just about every way to stripper clips.

My Ruger Scout that I posted above is- IMHO- a superior system than Jeff Coopers parameters. The only shortcoming is that it is slightly heavier than he specifies.
 
ponymusic said:
Forgive me if I misunderstand your post - if the rifle is for short range stopping (I'm thinking an aggressive pissed bear here) why do you want a scope? I would think irons or a red dot would be preferable in such a situation. Truly curious.
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For options.

The carbine is set up with a WWG ghost ring and Williams Firesite plus a light mount so I'm set up for <25 yard shots with irons.

The IER scooe is in QD rings so it can used if the circumstances call for it. Like a wounded animal gets into the bush but we spot him at longer range. Or a bad problem animal has to be legally put down and we bait him to a suitable kill site and the shot is longer. If a scope makes the finishing shot easier it is there.

Having options in the real world are good.

It also makes a dandy muley rifle in the heavily treed, rainy Lower Mainland.
 
I tried the scout concept several times, and very much disliked it each time. I ultimately set-up the scout rifless with standard mounted LPVO or LPO's, usually with IR... personally I do not find any speed advantage to long eye relief forward mounted optics. I have shot large bore rifles my whole life and have never scoped myself with one, it should never happen with a .308 with anything resembling good form. I did scope myself one time with a 12 gauge shotgun shooting 3.5" turkey loads, when a gobbler snuck in to my hard right... there was blood on the pine needles that day, and only some of it was the turkey's.
I don't like the harmonics of a Cantilever rail, when it is not fixed at both ends, and I don't like the relative fragility of that set up. I'm curious what you had in mind for mounting the forward optic when you chose the carbon barrel?
 
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