Scout scopes

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PhantomXero

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Hey everyone,

I recently purchased a Leupold FX-II 2.5x28 scout scope for my Steyr. It is a nice little scope for the price, especially when I got a sweet sale price on it. No complaints at all, I am holding beautiful groups at 100 yards. However, I am maybe thinking of participating in some matches in the upcoming year. I am also getting into 6mm PPC bench rest shooting, but I'm thinking I'd like to take on some of the smarty pants in the sporter class.

I know what the point of a Scout rifle is, and the 2.5x is perfect for those purposes, but I am looking to maybe up the ante a bit in the glass department for competition (I use a 36x for 6mm PPC) while still allowing for lower magnifications for 'scouting' purposes. I have a Leupold Mark IV M3 fixed 10x, but I'm really looking for something in a scout type setup. I would rather not have to switch out optics all the time.

Are there any scout scopes with a higher magnification, either fixed or variable? Are there other options for increasing my magnification?

A general question about optics, why is it that I frequently find that fixed powered scopes are more expensive than a comparable variable power scope? Or am I just imagining this?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

PX
 
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Quite a few handgun scopes have extended/intermediate eye-relief, and have variable magnification & some have 30mm tubes or larger...

I'm looking for something similar also, but haven't got out to actually look thru some optics.

;)
 
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Thanks for the info. I have seen some scopes with variable magnification. I have also heard that handgun scopes are an option. Why is it exactly that extended eye relief and variable magnification don't mix well?


^^Boomer beat me to it. I'd still like to know why variable magnification and extended eye relief don't mix well.
 
As far as I can tell, most people have more trouble shooting with both eyes open as magnification increases, and since both eyes open is part of the idea of the forward mounted scout scope, the higher magnification is no so much desired.

Pistol scopes tend to have longer eye relief than true scout scopes, which are probably best described as intermediate eye relief, as opposed to the long eye relief of pistol scopes.

Weaver makes a fixed power scout scope at 4x28mm, the K4 Scout, (about $250 at Cabela's.)
 
TheTooner;7637208[B said:
]As far as I can tell, most people have more trouble shooting with both eyes open as magnification increases, and since both eyes open is part of the idea of the forward mounted scout scope, the higher magnification is no so much desired[/B].

Pistol scopes tend to have longer eye relief than true scout scopes, which are probably best described as intermediate eye relief, as opposed to the long eye relief of pistol scopes.

Weaver makes a fixed power scout scope at 4x28mm, the K4 Scout, (about $250 at Cabela's.)
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This as well as the eye relief does diminish as magnification is increased which can be a problem for a forward mounted optic. What rifle are you mounting this to?

TDC
 
TDC said:
This as well as the eye relief does diminish as magnification is increased which can be a problem for a forward mounted optic. What rifle are you mounting this to?

TDC
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I am mounting to a Steyr Scout. (.223) I'm not necessarily looking for a variable only, I am perfectly fine with a fixed, just looking for something with a bit more magnification.
 
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PhantomXero said:
I am mounting to a Steyr Scout. (.223)
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There's no need to mount your optic so far forward on a Steyr Scout. Run a standard optic with a broad range of magnification and be done with it. The scout rifle concept is based on specific features. The fact that an optic needed to be mounted forward of the action was the biggest downside/problem. The Steyr doesn't have that issue so I see no need to replicate the problem.

TDC
 
My personal taste is for the regular configuration scope, owning both style, i find the forward scope to shine in thick bush and under 100 metres, the Steyr is an easy 350 metres rifle... JP.
 
The forward-mounted scope is not a "problem", it's the cornerstone of the scout-rifle concept. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but once you become familiar with it you will probably love it. I have my Steyr Scout set up with the original Leupold scout scope in QRW rings, and usually have a standard-eye-relief higher-magnification scope pre-sighted in a second set of QRW's. This second scope is particularly helpful when testing new loads. I would love to find a variable-power scout scope, but they are tough to locate.

Some folks have problems shooting with both eyes open, and if so they might not like the higher-mag scout scope because field of view will be extremely limited. IMHO the ideal solution is a variable of around 1.5 to 2 power at the low end, and maybe 6 or 8 power at the high end. Some pistol scopes will work with some rifles, but most of them have too much eye relief, i.e. you can't mount them far enough forward on the gun to get the proper sight picture. For me, the Steyr Scout requires about 11 inches of eye relief. I definitely want the option of dialing down the power when desired...a fixed-power scout scope of more than about 2-power doesn't make sense to me. Above all, learn to shoot with both eyes open if you aren't already doing that.

Whatever you decide, make sure that you try before you buy, or at least that you can return it if it doesn't work for you. Finding the right combination of eye-relief and magnification range in a quality scope is a challenge. Please post here if you have any luck...I'm still looking for that perfect scope!
 
Leupold FX-II 2.5x28

Of interest, the above scope with 165-168 grain factory loads gets you centre of mass hits at 400m by using the pointy top of the bottom stadia. There is plenty of inherent accuracy in the rifle to shoot at this range at large game.

Try before you let fly! ( at a moose)
 
jjohnwm said:
...

... definitely want the option of dialing down the power when desired...a fixed-power scout scope of more than about 2-power doesn't make sense to me. Above all, learn to shoot with both eyes open if you aren't already doing that.

... try before you buy, or at least that you can return it if it doesn't work for you. ...
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A fixed power at 4x does make sense to me because I have no problem with this magnification shooting with both eyes open even at very close range. You are right, one needs to learn to use both eyes open, and if possible to buy on a basis that you are not stuck with something that turns out to be unworkable for you. What works for one fellow may not for another.
 
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I have an Enfield scout folder based on a sporterized BSA no 4 mk1.

For nostalgia and because the eye- relief and price was right,
It is fitted with an also BSA modern Edge series 2-7x32 pistol scope .

At low magnification X2 , the scope is perfect for 2 eyes open quick acquisition.

But then I can also crank it out to X7 for longer ranges.

The minimum Eye relief is 10 to 10.5 inches which is perfect with my particular stock ( a home made folding pistol stock based on ATI shotgun folding stock ), and the length of enfield action and my picatiny XS sights scout mount.

It does change at increased mag though , so my cheek weld has to change slightly with high mag to compensate.

If you have a picatinny rail on your scout mount like me, you can play a bit with scope position to find the sweet spot.

The annoying truth is no one makes mildots or adjustable turrets on scout or pistol scopes.

This is fine for scout as it goes against instinctive scout style use.

But what if you want to play at a little longer range or like me haven t reached instinctive shooting yet?

I came up with a name for a system to use the variable scope to its best potential to compensate.

A lot of this is theoretical and I m no expert so I am taking a chance and posting it here for hopefully gentle feedback. :)

It probably existed before but I Call the system VIXEN for Variable Image X EXtrapolatioN .

Vixen Step-1 : estimate range by dialing in magnification.

I dont know if its coincidence but on this scope, the size of the narrow lines plex reticle is just right to allow the scope to be used for rough range finding.

It magically turns out that At X2 power a man width sized object seen at 100 yards will fill one side of the narrower inner plex lines.

Really its more like 20 inches at 100 and not 19 but its close enough to be useful.

But since that s at X2 power, that s twice as large as if it were X1 power.

So on a virtual X1 power a human torso would be half of that and take up 1/2 of one side of narrow plex lines. So now we have a baseline measure in terms of subtended size of object at a virtual X1 power and at 100 yards.

We can now use this to estimate range of known objects at inknown distance based On magnification needed to achieve the same visual width as On our 100 yard model.


So at 200 y, the 19 inch torso would fit in just under half of one side of narrow lines on X2 power.
so now I can use this to range.

Simply increase magnification on target untill you can fit torso in 1/2 plex and read the mag on top.
MultiPly that by 100 and thats the range in yards.

Also at 100 yards, 1 side of narrow plex is two men across which is roughly one yard on virtual X1 power at a hundred, while full left to right narrow lines , or top to bottom narrow lines subtend two yards which is also roughly man-height.

This means you can now roughly range targets in man width man height or any object in 1/2 yard , one yard and 2 yard sizes.

Vixen Step-2 : Dial in appropriate zero based on range in step-1 above.


uhhh.. I just edited that section out .

Forget step-2. I realize what an eedjit I was.

This works in reverse of what I thought. As Magnification is increased the image appears larger (or closer) so the same angular offset in a fixed second focal plane reticle is subtending less of the target and thus the moa offset at say 100 yards actually decreases.

When magnification is decreased , the image now appears smaller (or further) and the same moa offset gets a larger portion of the target, so moa offset appears to increase .

So even though you could try to use this to get a variable MOA offset, it would work against you, because you would be using your lower Magnification to try get a larger moa offset to reach longer ranges (higher moa) and, you would be uing a higher magnification to get a smaller moa offset for closer ranges.

This is the opposite of what we would want.



doh ! what an eedjit I was.

On the other hand I did learn something.

Thanks for constructive feedback.

I suppose a better alternative would be to use a Burris 3-12 Ballistic Plex pistol scope. The ballistic plex lines would work but not sure how field-of-view works at higher mag.
 
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steff said:
I have an Enfield scout folder based on a sporterized BSA no 4 mk1.


... my particular stock ( a home made folding pistol stock based on ATI shotgun folding stock ), and the length of enfield action and my picatiny XS sights scout mount.

...
Click to expand...

Post a picture of that, please, if only for the curiousity value of the stock.
 
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