I wasn't invited to offer a book.
If you like scout rifles, have at'em. I simply stated why I don't as invited by the OP.
Scout Style in 308 - Mossberg or Savage
- Thread starter Forest1488
- Start date
I hunt with Lee Enfield No.4 rifles often. My Marlin 1894 has a ten round magazine, too. I don't notice the extra weight of the magazine and I never have problem fitting one or three or five rounds in a ten round magazine. Haven't tried putting ten rounds in a smaller magazine yet.
That's true, but seems to me that 5 rounders for Lee Enfields are preferred over the 10s. I have two 5 rounders for mine and would not trade them for 10s.
Tubular magazines do not apply to this as they do no obstruct the one handed carry of a lightweight rifle, which was one of my observations.
Do you shoot 10 rounds at game often? (Which was another of my observations)
I like pump guns. Which of the following is easier to carry, esp with a full mag?
So I did check out Jeff Cooper on wiki. The following is one of his quotes regarding the use of rifles. Much of the following thought has nothing to do with a sporting rifle. It's more like a SHTF weapon, and on that point I would agree with him with it's intended use.
Again from wiki, the following are his thoughts on a scout rifle. Based solely on his specs, I still think a Model Seven in 308 with a low powered scope is a better sporting rifle configuration than the forward scoped scout with battle sized magazine..
Lol, I can't quite picture Jeff Cooper using the term "SHTF" 
, but you're right; his idea of a rifle's mission is very much leaning in that direction. In other of his writings, he extolls the advantages of stripper-clip reloading (allowed by the forward scope). For me, stripper clips are a non-issue; couldn't care less about having the first 10 rounds, let alone worrying about getting even more in there. Weight is one thing, but the major thing I hate about big mags is the way they mess up the comfortable carry of the rifle. The SMLE is one of the best in this regard, but even with that old warhorse the mag sticks out far enough to compromise the way my hand wraps around the receiver. A flush-mounted mag with 3, 4 or 5 rounds lets me wrap my hand comfortably around the action and carry the rifle with my hand in a natural loosely gripped position, much better for long-term toting-around than a gun with a 10-round mag sticking out the bottom. Don't even get me started on the lunacy of 20 or 30 rounders pinned to 5; I keep rolling my eyes skyward when I hear someone try to justify that by telling me it acts as a rifle rest from prone, and it's starting to cause headaches.
Cooper also points out the benefits of a more expansive field of view, allowing the shooter to see a much more complete picture of the target surroundings than a scope mashed up against the eye would be able to offer. IMHO this is only an advantage for those unfortunate shooters who insist on squinting their off eye closed while shooting, and so need to rely upon their shooting eye to see both through and around the scope. If you keep both eyes properly open while shooting, your off eye will be aware of the unmagnified view downrange.
I like to carry my rifle at my side in one hand, with that hand wrapped around the receiver. Having the mag not sticking out on the bottom, and having the scope mounted forward and out-of-the-way on the top, makes for the most comfortable-carrying bolt rifle possible.
I have noticed that an excessively large scout-style scope can indeed negatively affect the handling and balance of some rifles. I am moving away from the larger variable-magnification scout scopes mostly for that reason; the fixed 2x and 2.75x models are superlightweight and compact. Many people seem to think a deer or coyote at 300 yards requires 15x magnification, an adjustable 56mm objective and a reticle that looks like a Toronto road map; if you think you need one of those (and no, SuperCub, I'm not referring to you here...), then maybe you don't want a scout rifle.
A Model 7? Tough to argue with that; it's a really versatile rifle...especially if you put a forward mounted scout scope on it.
, but you're right; his idea of a rifle's mission is very much leaning in that direction. In other of his writings, he extolls the advantages of stripper-clip reloading (allowed by the forward scope). For me, stripper clips are a non-issue; couldn't care less about having the first 10 rounds, let alone worrying about getting even more in there. Weight is one thing, but the major thing I hate about big mags is the way they mess up the comfortable carry of the rifle. The SMLE is one of the best in this regard, but even with that old warhorse the mag sticks out far enough to compromise the way my hand wraps around the receiver. A flush-mounted mag with 3, 4 or 5 rounds lets me wrap my hand comfortably around the action and carry the rifle with my hand in a natural loosely gripped position, much better for long-term toting-around than a gun with a 10-round mag sticking out the bottom. Don't even get me started on the lunacy of 20 or 30 rounders pinned to 5; I keep rolling my eyes skyward when I hear someone try to justify that by telling me it acts as a rifle rest from prone, and it's starting to cause headaches. Cooper also points out the benefits of a more expansive field of view, allowing the shooter to see a much more complete picture of the target surroundings than a scope mashed up against the eye would be able to offer. IMHO this is only an advantage for those unfortunate shooters who insist on squinting their off eye closed while shooting, and so need to rely upon their shooting eye to see both through and around the scope. If you keep both eyes properly open while shooting, your off eye will be aware of the unmagnified view downrange.
I like to carry my rifle at my side in one hand, with that hand wrapped around the receiver. Having the mag not sticking out on the bottom, and having the scope mounted forward and out-of-the-way on the top, makes for the most comfortable-carrying bolt rifle possible.
I have noticed that an excessively large scout-style scope can indeed negatively affect the handling and balance of some rifles. I am moving away from the larger variable-magnification scout scopes mostly for that reason; the fixed 2x and 2.75x models are superlightweight and compact. Many people seem to think a deer or coyote at 300 yards requires 15x magnification, an adjustable 56mm objective and a reticle that looks like a Toronto road map; if you think you need one of those (and no, SuperCub, I'm not referring to you here...), then maybe you don't want a scout rifle.
A Model 7? Tough to argue with that; it's a really versatile rifle...especially if you put a forward mounted scout scope on it.
The magazine discussion is a bit silly. They make 3,5 and 10 round mags for the Ruger scout. I don’t like flush mounted detach mags so I find the 5 round one the nicest for hunting/field carry. Just buy what you want.
I dunno...maybe. If you were a stickler about adhering to the specs he proposed (I'm certainly not, but a lot of folks are...) then you need to keep the rifle weight under 6.6 pounds. Is this realistic with a semi-auto? I'm not saying you're wrong; I don't follow the semi-auto black-rifle world that closely, so I just don't know. Cooper wanted the unloaded rifle, complete with mag, sights and sling, to stay under 7.5 pounds.
He was also a big fan of a magazine cut-off, allowing for easy use of single shots followed by an immediate top-up. The Steyr is, I believe, the only commercial scout rifle that addresses that function. Does it work as they claim? Yeah...sorta...kinda...it's not extremely convenient, but probably as much so as any design could be. The Steyr also offers a built-in bipod (certainly not the best bipod in the world, but definitely the most unobtrusive when folded up out of the way, which is nice) as well as storage of a spare mag in the buttstock. Cooper liked these features, although I don't recall which were considered merely desirable as opposed to being must-haves to qualify for the "scout" appellation.
Getting all that stuff into a semi-auto action that still "makes weight", as he liked to say, would be a challenge. How do you make a semi-auto with a magazine cut-off?
That's true, but seems to me that 5 rounders for Lee Enfields are preferred over the 10s. I have two 5 rounders for mine and would not trade them for 10s.
Tubular magazines do not apply to this as they do no obstruct the one handed carry of a lightweight rifle, which was one of my observations.
Do you shoot 10 rounds at game often? (Which was another of my observations)
I like pump guns. Which of the following is easier to carry, esp with a full mag?
I have a five round magazine (from a ParkerHale No.4 sporter) I would trade for a ten round. On Lee Enfields, the magazine doesn't protude enough to cause me a problem. I've never got an animal to stick around a second miss, let alone nine so I could hit with the last shot. I'll shoot a full magazine at a target on the range.
A ten round tubular magazine would affect the balance of the rifle more than a ten round box magazine under the action.
I have never carried either of those pump action guns but I suppose you have and you like the one with the smaller magazine better. I wouldn't go out of my way to get a larger magazine for a pump action (I don't handle them well so I won't own one) but the larger magazine pictured looks to fit just well enough to not be a problem. If it came with one larger than that I would try to swap it for a smaller one.
Last edited:
