Searching For Perfection

chuck nelson said:
The barrel from rebar thing is getting more attention here than it deserves.

To find true masters at both metal and wood is a fairly tall order. And generally bloody expensive. Ralph Martini and Martin Hagn come to mind. But that said, I’m not an enormous fan of Ralph’s stock design. Superbly executed, I just prefer something different. The most well executed rifle I have ever laid my hands on was a Hagn single shot. Stocked and built by someone else. I’ve never seen anything comparable before nor since. It had no flaw. European gunmakers are not automatically masters of everything either. The biggest names in Europe have shops full of specialists. Stockers, regulators, etc.

I believe the finest gunsmiths today reside in North America. That includes Canada. There are a few that are exceptional across the board. But some of the finest examples of rifles that I’ve seen are collaborative efforts. There is nothing wrong with that.
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One of Hagn's single shot rifles stocked by Steven Dodd in Montana was a joy to behold and handle. Have to say I agree. - dan
 
chuck nelson said:
The barrel from rebar thing is getting more attention here than it deserves.

To find true masters at both metal and wood is a fairly tall order. And generally bloody expensive. Ralph Martini and Martin Hagn come to mind. But that said, I’m not an enormous fan of Ralph’s stock design. Superbly executed, I just prefer something different. The most well executed rifle I have ever laid my hands on was a Hagn single shot. Stocked and built by someone else. I’ve never seen anything comparable before nor since. It had no flaw. European gunmakers are not automatically masters of everything either. The biggest names in Europe have shops full of specialists. Stockers, regulators, etc.

I believe the finest gunsmiths today reside in North America. That includes Canada. There are a few that are exceptional across the board. But some of the finest examples of rifles that I’ve seen are collaborative efforts. There is nothing wrong with that.
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I think Ron did that as a gimmick to prove it could be done. Says more about the man than the technique.

Grizz
 
I once had a customer much like this who approached me about some work. He asked about my guarantee and about my return policy and he asked for an estimate. I gave him an estimated range for the work. He, with his nose elevated slightly, said (and I quote), "Surely, my good man, you can be more precise than that!" I said, "Well I sure can. It won't cost you a dime because I don't want to work for you". I then turned around and walked back into the shop. I heard him telling the store owner that he wasn't done talking to me and that I had treated him "like dirt under my feet". The owner called back, saying the man said he wasn't done talking to me. I hollered back, "Maybe not but I was done listening". I heard the owner say. "Well, I guess that's it then." I figure I had dodged a bullet and felt good about it. For some reason, there are those who feel that any artisan should approach them with deference and show nothing but gratitude for being allowed to take their crap. It doesn't always work that way. Many years ago, I learned the ability to "just say no" meant less stress and more money. Kind of a win/win.
I've spent considerable time with a lap to correct barrels produced by those "brothers on the east side of the ocean" and installed by world class 'smiths on this side. Sometimes those Ferlach boys screw up too!
 
My Dad told me a story once when he was working in a fab shop. The owner was a master at welding. A customer walked in to the shop when this man was working and concentrating. The customer was getting impatient waiting to be served, so he dropped the manifold he had brought in on the floor which startled the shop owner. He quietly set down his equipment, walked up to the customer, picked up the manifold, walked to the door and threw it into the parking lot and said “get the fk out of my shop and never come back”.
 
If you’ve got such a hard on for European gunsmiths why don’t you take your business over there? I doubt you will be missed.
 
I have seen some fine examples of complete gunsmithing by both Leaper and Guntech that rival the best smiths I ever seen .I would be proud to own ether one of there pieces .Two of the most respected and under rated craftsmen I have ever had the good fortune of meeting. I doubt either one has evan visited Ferlach but they still manage to produce some truly amazing fire arms .I think when it comes to firearms work you either have the touch or not and they got it .
 
G.E.FLACH said:
I have seen some fine examples of complete gunsmithing by both Leaper and Guntech that rival the best smiths I ever seen .I would be proud to own ether one of there pieces .Two of the most respected and under rated craftsmen I have ever had the good fortune of meeting. I doubt either one has evan visited Ferlach but they still manage to produce some truly amazing fire arms .I think when it comes to firearms work you either have the touch or not and they got it .
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Agreed. But Bill is retired. :)
 
track said:
I'm seeking knowledge from experienced gun owners who know a gunsmith/gun maker with the following traits.
-Can trouble-shoot and repair any gun issue
-manipulate a beaver gnawed log, into a work-of-art gun stock
-manipulate rebar into the most strongest undeviating rifle barrel
-continued communication
-honesty
-devotion
Yes, there are many of them, in Ferlach, Austria, just as there are many pubs in England. Unfortunately, Canadians do not have that luxury, with the exception of two who hail from Cranbrook, BC. Other than these two exceptional "gun makers," is there a hole-in-the-wall, unrevealed gunsmith/gun maker in Canada?
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First off if those two gentlemen in Cranbrook BC are the only gunsmiths that are perfect for your needs why are you looking elsewhere ?

I could ask you if you know of a gunsmith that can take a raw CF rifle stock blank and turn it into a rifle stock that fits you like a glove, paint schemes that are amazing and can do so in short order......won’t be those gentlemen in Cranbrook as that’s not their forte, but we have several amazing gunsmiths in Canada that can.

One time on a Thursday night I dropped off to a gunsmith a Husqvarna action with bottom metal/Benchmark .284 barrel blank/ Timney trigger and a Wildcat CF raw blank stock, Sunday he calls and says your rifle is ready ? Huh ! Yup all done and I get it to the range and it shoots 3/8” groups with factory ammo.....well he’s not from Ferlack, Austria but I can overlook him being Canadian ;)


Aside from your strange request about using Rebar for a barrel ? You do know that we have some of the finest rifle barrel makers in the world right here in North America.

I’m up to about 60 Custom and Semi custom builds, I will admit I have a passion for lightweight, synthetic stocked hunting rifles that shoot 1/4” MOA using barrels not made from rebar.....so it sounds like you and I are looking for something different in our rifles !

About 2 years ago I stopped by my local gunsmiths shop and he had some parts a customer dropped off, a CRF action I don’t even recall what brand, a block of wood, a Scope , and a iirc the gunsmith actually supplied the barrel blank also......he said I’m building him a iirc a 416 Remington for an African Safari hunt ? I kind of chuckled with an eyebrow raised....

Well a few months later I stopped by to pick up a build and he says I had a customer in here yelling at me about his custom build that the raw wood blank he gave me to use is to dark ?

He hands me the rifle which in all honesty I was scared to hold it, this wood stocked masterpiece was nothing short of amazing I was in awe, it shouldered like a dream with hand made sights that lined up perfectly, a cheekpiece and checkering that was like I’ve never seen....the finish on the wood stock was simply amazing flawless came to mind.......wood stocked rifles aren’t really my thing but I know when a beautiful hand made rifle such as this should be placed on a mantle or in a showcase. so everyone can see it......

You made this rifle from scratch ? and the guy was yelling at you because the natural colour in the wood blank he brought you is to dark....seems reasonable .....whats his name and where is this goof I’m going to give him an attitude adjustment !

I like to think I’m pretty good at my job as a ships pilot driving and docking the largest ships in the world......but I can say with certainty I could never do what that gunsmith does for a hobby as I’m not that talented !

Respectfully........
 
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remington jim said:
I've READ lot's of track's stuff on here - Good hunter with some nice rifles too - Pretty sure most of his thread was with tonque in cheek ! jmo LOL RJ
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Track is "Searching For Perfection" you will not find in a piece of rebar for a barrel ;)

And as far as perfect builds last time I checked you weren't a gunsmith but if you were I would send him your number as I know how fussy you are buddy.
 
Had a guy who asked me to chamber a 7mm rem mag for him on a Remington 700 action.. Certainty an easy enough job.. Only catch was he wanted me to guarantee. 1\4 minute of angle .. I asked him if he could shoot 1/4 inch groups to which he said yes.... So I promptly went to my truck and pulled out a bench gun.. He shot 1" with it turned it over to me and I showed him a 1 /4" group. Then I told him there was no way to make him happy and refused his work.. I hope he is reading this. As he will certainly remember the occasion...
 
I have never guaranteed accuracy... i guarantee I will do my best and that's all you can do. I have seen conditions where a rifle capable of 1/4 inch would shoot well over an inch... when I was testing guns for other people I always compared their grouping with a fresh grouping from a rifle I knew shot well...
 
It is impossible to know what a given barrel will produce..Even more impossible to know what the customer can deliver. There were guys south of the border at a time 25 or so years ago saying they would guarantee 1/4 minute with premium factory ammo of the day no less..
They didn't last long...
 
For the most part if a gun is put together properly with a GOOD barrel it will shoot, but after using a pile of aftermarket barrels mostly Benchmark, some Bartlein and HawkHill, I have had a few that just won’t shoot well, the best barrel makers in the world can’t tell beforehand if and when stresses show up after firing and the metal heats up.

I find now a days with the quality of barrels, actions, optics and reloading components, not to mention awesome factory ammo
1/2” MOA or less rifles are a little more commonplace then when I started hunting/shooting 40 years ago.
 
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