Seating wadcutters flush with case mouth?

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7Stringer

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1. Does the Lee Precision .38 Special Carbide 4 Die Set allow you the needed adjust to seat the bullets in the way specified?

2. What are seating plugs?

3. What other seating dies would you recommend for the Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret Press?

4. What type of crimping die does the Lee Precision .38 Special Carbide 4 Die Set contain?

5. Do I also need a taper crimping die for the seating required?


Thank you for your help.
 
I shoot a S&W model 52 that uses the wad cutter ammo only. I had a bit of a hard time figuring out how to do it. I am not sure if there was a special set of dies originally made for this or not. Here is how I made it work.

I took a 38 seater die and I now use a 32 seater plug so that I can push the bullet just inside the case and then I use a roll crimp 38 die and roll the crimp over the front edge of the bullet and it works great. When I tried to use the org. 38 special seater die the seating bullet stem would hit the edges of the case before it actual got the bullet deep enought in the case to crimp it. If you want then you can use a taper crimp die to make sure there are no chambering issues and Bobs your uncle

Graydog
 
I pulled out the seating plug in my lee die and cut a wadcutter so it would fit inside and add some extra seating depth. I then apply the crimp with a 9mm factory crimp die and it applies a nice light taper crimp ahead of the wadcutter.

Very accurate and nice clean holes on paper.
 
1. Yep. It'd be useless if it didn't. A hellacious number of WC's are loaded every year.
2. That'd be the thingy on the end of the threaded shaft in the seating die. They come in several 'styles', one of which is flat for seating WC's and SWC's. Another will be round for RN's. You adjust 'em down until you get the flush seating. Both should have come with the die set. The bullet should sit flush or a wee bit above flush with no crimp. Graydog's fancy pants Smith 52( I'm insanely jealous) is a different beast than a revolver, but reloading for it shouldn't be any different. No crimp should be necessary.
3. Any die set will fit. I use RCBS or Redding myself.
4&5. No crimp at all is best for WC target loads. Crimping is really only required for hot jacketed bullets and it's detrimental for accuracy with a WC. A taper crimp is used for pistol cartridges like the .45 ACP, that headspace on the casse mouth.
 
I've been crimping with good results. I read an article in Handloader magazine where they looked at velocity extreme spread and applying a crimp on revolver loads, and the crimped rounds were more consistent.
 
plmnkoqaz said:
I've been crimping with good results. I read an article in Handloader magazine where they looked at velocity extreme spread and applying a crimp on revolver loads, and the crimped rounds were more consistent.
Click to expand...

That has always been my understanding, and I adjust my ancient Lyman die to put a small roll crimp during seating. I could chronograph my 357 WC loads to see how much of a difference the crimp makes, but some reloading manuals suggest the same so I don't bother. I think the improved consistency is a result of the bullet being slightly delayed in departure during shot, which allows more clean and thorough powder combustion. Wadcutter loads are always light anyway, so it makes sense with a tiny bit of powder rolling around in the case, that ensuring all of it burns at more consistent times during the shot that accuracy would be superior. I am not familiar with Lee die sets and the bits provided, but I expect the respective die, imparts a roll crimp as opposed to the taper crimp required in semi-auto pistol calibers that headspace on the mouth.

OP, sunray is accurate in his explanation, however my disagreement with 4/5 is in the previous paragraph.
 
graydog said:
I shoot a S&W model 52 that uses the wad cutter ammo only. I had a bit of a hard time figuring out how to do it. I am not sure if there was a special set of dies originally made for this or not. Here is how I made it work.

I took a 38 seater die and I now use a 32 seater plug so that I can push the bullet just inside the case and then I use a roll crimp 38 die and roll the crimp over the front edge of the bullet and it works great. When I tried to use the org. 38 special seater die the seating bullet stem would hit the edges of the case before it actual got the bullet deep enought in the case to crimp it. If you want then you can use a taper crimp die to make sure there are no chambering issues and Bobs your uncle

Graydog
Click to expand...

I know what you're saying and the 32 seater plug is a good idea. I also have a Model 52 and seat the bullets flush with the case mouth with a moderate roll crimp. I guess I've been lucky because the stock seater plugs in my Lee and Hornady die sets have always seated the bullets flush without hitting the case mouth.
 
sunray said:
4&5. No crimp at all is best for WC target loads. Crimping is really only required for hot jacketed bullets and it's detrimental for accuracy with a WC. A taper crimp is used for pistol cartridges like the .45 ACP, that headspace on the casse mouth.
Click to expand...

I have to politely disagree with this. First, as the case mouth has to be belled slightly to prevent lead shaving of cast bullets when seating, a crimp to return the case mouth to at least parallel is important to allow for easy chambering of rounds in a revolver and imperative for chambering in a semi auto. It's true that a roll crimp is desirable in heavy recoiling revolvers to prevent bullet setback. However, a roll crimp OVER the leading edge of a wadcutter also helps to ensure more complete burning of the powder and consistent pressure generation. It also ensures smoother feeding of rounds from speed loaders in revolvers and magazines in semi-autos.
 
As daft as it sounds, a crimp buggers accuracy with a WC. Something about the bullet/gases having to overcome the crimp before sending the bullet on its way. Not many speed loaders used with WC's, PPC maybe, but accuracy is lessened with a crimp.
"...a crimp to return the case mouth to..." A crimp isn't for that. The seating die, properly set up does that.
Like I said, a Smith 52 is a different beast. Pistol have different 'rules' from revolvers.
In any case, the world isn't going to stop over crimping or not crimping. My experience(nearly 40 years) indicates no crimp for light WC loads. And it isn't required for 'em. Hot jacketed loads need a crimp to keep the bullet in place under recoil.
 
7Stringer said:
1. Does the Lee Precision .38 Special Carbide 4 Die Set allow you the needed adjust to seat the bullets in the way specified?

2. What are seating plugs?

3. What other seating dies would you recommend for the Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret Press?

4. What type of crimping die does the Lee Precision .38 Special Carbide 4 Die Set contain?

5. Do I also need a taper crimping die for the seating required?


Thank you for your help.
Click to expand...

OP, I load .38 WC loads on a Lee 4 hole turret press using the Lee 4 die set.

1) Yes, you can seat them to below flush if you want.
2) No idea, haven't needed anything beyond the standard dies so far.
3) The Lee work fine for me.
4) Mine has the factory crimp die, which does a roll crimp.
5) The bullet seating die can do a taper crimp if you want, but it isn't needed for revolver loads.

I use a light roll crimp into the crimping groove on my WC bullets. I could just as easily seat the bullet flush or below flush and roll crimp over top of it if the bullets didn't have a crimping groove. Roll crimping may or may not hurt accuracy, but I am the weak link in the system, not the gun. 3.2gr of W231 under a 148gr wadcutter shoots far better than I can.


Mark


Mark
 
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