Second year production 870 (1951) vs. later 870 - key differences explained.

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I looked for this info on the 'net and could barely find any, so I figured I would share for those who might have an interest in such things. Remington introduced the Model 870 in 1950 (some sources report 1951, but apparently 1950 examples exist as well) as a less expensive (to produce) alternative to the Model 31 so they could better compete with the "hammerless" Winchester model 12, which was king of sales at the time. From 195o through to middle of 1953, Remington 870's were made to a different pattern than the late 1953 870 shotguns, all the way up until the Express was introduced in 1987. There are also minor differences between 1954 and 1987 besides barrel patterns, but not as contrasting as the ones I show here.

Some posters responding to this thread point out the early guns had other transitional changes, so if anyone has pictures of those, I'd LOVE to see some! My sample size for disassembly of the very early guns is low (standing at TWO) as of 02-06-2016.

I had an XX coded Wingmaster arrive on the bench this week for an external restoration. It's pretty tired on the outside (i.e. bluing almost gone, light pitting, dings, and the wood finish at about 0% (not cracks or splits). Otherwise, it's mechanically excellent with a clean bore. As it happens, I also have a 1974 Wingmaster also being restored in the shop at the same time, so I thought I would take comparative pics to point out the differences since many people will never see the insides of these guns side by side.

First of all, they are NOT 100% INTERCHANGEABLE. This is not a well known fact (!), but the earliest Wingmasters ARE different, most noticeable in how the bolt locks into the barrel extension. You can swap whole assemblies between receivers but, for example, an early bolt body has to be mated to an early locking bolt.

I don't have both barrels with me today, but when I do later this week, I'll post differences are as well. Obviously LOTS of barrel variations exist, the differences I'm talking about are all in how they attach to the receiver and in the magazine ring. The barrel differences can be seen on the outside of the guns, so people are more familiar with the early "banded" barrels vs. the later one-piece barrels than with the internal differences I'm trying to show here.

So... let's start with the bolt assemblies. Unless otherwise stated, the 1951 part is always on the LEFT.

Here is the first photo. Right away we see some differences. The most obvious is that the firing pin is MUCH longer and protrudes out the back of the bolt an extra 1/8" over a later bolt. Also, because the early bolt mated to an early barrel with a threaded-on extension, a relief cut was added to the top of the bolt just above the extractor to reduce the chances of interference with an early 870 barrel. You may also notice the forged and milled extractor is smaller in profile than the later extractor shape that is still used today as the "police extractor".

IMG_0465_zpsypjq8sbd.jpg


Now we compare the undersides. Something is REALLY different here. In 1953, Remington switched to a captive locking bolt. On the early guns, this part just falls out when a bolt assembly is turned upside down outside the shotgun. Also, the relief cut that allows the cartridge elevator to fully depress on a closed bolt (for loading) is a huge woodrough cutter relief vs the later "slit". The relief cut to remove a pinned captive locking bolt is also absent on an early bolt. You can install an early locking bolt into a later bolt assembly, but the reverse is NOT POSSIBLE (i.e. they are not interchangeable). On the early bolt, the only reason to remove the firing pin retainer pin would be to replace the firing pin. On a later bolt, you need to remove it to take apart the locking bolt assembly. Lastly, early bolts are polished nickel steel. After 1953*, they started to hard chrome them.

*Not 100% certain if 1953 is the cutoff for nickel steel vs. chrome, so if anyone knows better, please advise.

IMG_0464_zps4jdlfxtq.jpg


Let's look at bolt carriers next.

Early carriers are milled from a solid forging. Later in production, they were made from a forged top piece being pinned and brazed to a cheaply stamped-out base. You can clearly see the rivets/pins, but they are copper-brazed as well. The relief cut of the spring-loaded elevator arm is a milled slot on the early carrier, while on the later one, it's a hole from when the base was stamped out in a die. The "ramps" that engage the slide arms are large milled surfaces on the early unit, on the later one, they are much narrower, presumably to prolong too life by cutting only the minimally required area on the part. The later part is also made shorted by flattening the back end, probably so more could be stamped from the same sheet of steel.

IMG_0462_zpsupnos4kh.jpg


The top of the same part show other differences. Notably, the locking bolt engagement "hump" was almost doubled in length on the later version.

It's worth noting that the early guns were rust blued and the later guns are caustically hot-dipped. Early guns' interior surfaces are in the white, but they took the time to rust blue the carrier.

IMG_0461_zps0phlesve.jpg


The trigger plates (i.e. trigger groups) are remarkably similar, but the very earliest ones were made by Alcoa, while later production ones are marked by a variety of sub-contractors. Presumably Remington shopped the dies around to whichever aluminum foundry gave the best prices over time. All the pre-Express groups are cast, unlike the current aluminum units that are MIM.

Alcoa early plate:

IMG_0474_zpsbb4ocrxy.jpg


A 1974 unit made by a foundry with a "DJ" mark in a circle. Not sure who they are. Like the bolts, before 1953*, the elevators are polished nickel steel. The 1974 elevator is nickel plated (or possibly chromed?).

*Not 100% certain if 1953 is the cutoff for nickel steel vs. chrome, so if anyone knows better, please advise.

IMG_0475_zpsgiiwuxtc.jpg


This next one is a bit trivial. The early magazine spring retainer is smooth, but they had a tendency to get bent or to warp during removal/install. At some point before 1974, they added some relief cuts to the stamping dies so it could flex more without being and taking a "set".

IMG_0468_zpsoue1nzys.jpg


Here's one I found funny. In the early 1950's, Remington offered (as standard) what is today the most popular upgrade for an 870 - a proper anti-tilt follower. These early ones are lathe-turned units with minimal bearing surface bands so they would run smooth. The do not ever tilt and are utterly reliable. A typical 1974 era hard plastic follower is to the right. I hate these and always replace them with an aftermarket follower so they work more like a 1951 gun does :)

IMG_0466_zpszz6d6ejl.jpg


Many early Wingmaster slides came with trim little corn cob forestocks, but the earliest ones are more cylindrical in profile, like on a Model 31, later ones are more football shaped. The retainer nut for these was much shorter and you need a special tool to remove them because the castellations sit below flush with the end of the slide tube. Most 870 stock nut tools will not remove these early nuts.

Note: I don't know if the non-corn cop stocks used a taller nut on the early guns, I've not seen one to verify.

IMG_0469_zpsptb8ynlm.jpg


Let's look at the ejection ports. The early port required TWO machine operations to cut, first they cut the opening perpendicular to the receiver flat, then the receiver was placed in another fixture upright and an end mill cut a relief along the top of the ejection port so users would not jam their fingers if they had to clear a stovepipe. This extra milling operation was eliminated early on to save $$.

Early:

IMG_0471_zpsk38qsvas.jpg


Late:

IMG_0470_zpsiqk53fi2.jpg


You will also notice that the late ejector has a shoulder that kicks the shell out of the receiver when the base of the hull hits it (this one is converted to 3", but the same principle applies). The 1950-1953 ejector does not have this shoulder. They eject a little weaker and ejection happens when the base of the hull hits the notch in the spring, not a shoulder on the ejector.

Another minor receiver difference is found where the magazine is brazed into the receiver. The early receiver "shelf" atop the magazine has a raised portion to minimize the surface area where the bolt carrier contacts it, making for a slightly smoother feel. The later receiver is flat across the whole shelf, which is a cheaper approach. Practically it makes no difference IMHO.

Early:

IMG_0472_zpsnruf9op2.jpg


Late:

IMG_0473_zpsumme5tgg.jpg


That's about it for now. More to follow on barrels later.

EDIT: Input incorporated from 3macs1.

Another EDIT:

I added pictures of an early Wingmaster barrel.

Picture 1: Here we see that the barrel extension is not part of the barrel, but rather, is a threaded collar fitted to the back of the barrel:

IMG_0644_zpseqaegy2o.jpg


At some point (not sure if year) early on, Remington switched to one-piece barrels.

Another feature they dropped... Early on Remington machined the brazed-on barrel collars such that the "ring" is wider then the post where it's brazed to the barrel. On later guns, the post is the same width as the collar, presumably to cut down on machining (which cost money).

IMG_0643_zpsiub37qoi.jpg


Further Edit:

Here is a complete 1951 Wingmaster photo. This variant has the cylindrical corn cob type grip and a plain un-checkered walnut butt, though the wood is nice with a good degree of figure.

IMG_0662_zpsnyffntza.jpg


Here we see the early (smaller) Wingmaster roll stamp on the receiver. Notice it is low, set between the trigger plate pins. On later guns, this is styled differently, and is higher up on the receiver, stamped in-line with the Remington logo.

IMG_0663_zpswppaesv5.jpg


Here we see the early Remington logo, surmounting the serial number. The serial number has had the last few digits blurred out. This roll mark is a bit light, as the receiver was re-blued, but it was not much more strongly stamped before I re-blued the gun. I was not able to get all the micro-pits out of the receiver flat, or I would have erased the Remington logo and serial number (not good), so I just chemically cleaned the remaining pits and re-blued it as you see it now. These early roll stamps were NOT deeply struck, and are lower on the receiver than on later guns.

IMG_0664_zpskausvqva.jpg


Here we see the XX barrel code (1951):

IMG_0665_zpswnxhyupt.jpg


Here is the early barrel roll stamp. (Note this is a 16 gauge, but the 12 gauge stamp is otherwise identical).

IMG_0666_zpsat8op3hx.jpg
 
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Thanks for the post and you put a lot of work into this but the wingmaster came out in 1950 and not all early versions had little corn cob forearms
Just courious how many wingmasters are you comparing to make this report of the differences
Cheers
 
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Thanks for the post and you put a lot of work into this but the wingmaster came out in 1950
Just courious how many wingmasters are you comparing to make this report of the differences
Cheers

There is debate when the first ringmaster was sold as people date them by barrel codes and the early barrels were all coded for model 31 shotguns and were then re-purposed. Remington's own literature says 1951, including all references on their website. So I went with 1951 which is the XX barrel code. This issue is far from settled, so you are right to point out that some people believe 1950.

As for sample size, many dozens of post-53 wing masters. I've only ever had two 1951's apart, which is two more than most people -lol.

If anyone has more data from original condition samples, I'm happy to receive more input in this thread :)
 
There is debate when the first ringmaster was sold as people date them by barrel codes and the early barrels were all coded for model 31 shotguns and were then re-purposed. Remington's own literature says 1951, including all references on their website. So I went with 1951 which is the XX barrel code. This issue is far from settled, so you are right to point out that some people believe 1950.

As for sample size, many dozens of post-53 wing masters. I've only ever had two 1951's apart, which is two more than most people -lol.

If anyone has more data from original condition samples, I'm happy to receive more input in this thread :)

There is no debate on the year and no some people don't believe it was 1951 since some people here own a 1950 model.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to get that deep into them as you have shown here and I commend you for your work but don't assume because a few you have taken apart and compared represents the entire production runs for any particular year. They were evolving constantly as were the parts they were putting them together with and pending who they subcontracted at the time who indeed made slight modification or changes
Not to mention they did not rotate the components in the storage bins with respect to parts so pending any time older version or designs could end up in guns even years later. Then add the warranty jobs and every gun smith from here to hell that worked on them and used what ever parts they had on the shelves it is just about impossible to be 100% sure what any particular year came with unless you bought it new and never had work on it like my first 16ga or say one of them
I had the opportunity to visit the factory many years ago and believe me there was no best before date or parts rotation in bins or storage of large parts orders
1950____*___ WW code
Cheers
 
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Not that I doubt you, but as of today the Remington website, the Wikipedia entry for the 870, the blue book on firearms and Janes small arms all say 1951.

I also don't claim this post is authoritative. So please, if I got anything else wrong in your view, some of us would love to see more input.


There is not debate on the year and no some people don't believe it was 1951 since some people here own a 1950 model.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to get that deep into them as you have shown here and I commend you for your work but don't assume because a few you have taken apart and compared represents the entire production runs for any particular year. They were evolving constantly as were the parts they were put together and pending who they subcontracted at the time who indeed made slight modification or changes
Not to mention they did not rotate the components in the storage bins with respect to parts so pending any time older version or designs could end up in guns even years later
I had the opportunity to visit the factory many years ago
Cheers
Cheers
 
Not that I doubt you, but as of today the Remington website, the Wikipedia entry for the 870, the blue book on firearms and Janes small arms all say 1951.

I also don't claim this post is authoritative. So please, if I got anything else wrong in your view, some of us would love to see more input.

Why did I know this would happen if I opened my mouth. I would love to get into this deeper but honestly don't see the need nor do I have the time to put into this. I bought my first new wingmaster a 16ga in 1965 which I still have to this day and forget how many I have owned and fixed over the years
To me the differences are so slight it is not relevant
I currently own some from the earliest to a 2002 3 1/2 wingmaster in every gauge. Only one I am still looking for is a 16ga skeet to complete a set
Cheers
don't know what blue book you have
According to the "Blue Book of Gun Values", the coding continues as follows (edited to reflect the intro year of the OP's Model 870) :

Month Codes: [first letter]
B - L - A - C - K - P - O - W - D - E - R - X
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12

Year:______Code: [second (and third * letters]

1950____*___ WW
1951____*___ XX
1952____*___ YY
1953____*___ ZZ
1954_______ A
1955_______ B
1956_______ C
1957_______ D
1958_______ E
1959_______ F
1960_______ G
1961_______ H
1962_______ J
1963_______ K
1964_______ L
 
1950... first year production of the 870 Wingmaster.
1950 Remington introduced fifteen versions of the Model 870 shotgun, in 12, 16 and 20 gauges, including: Model 870 AP Standard Grade shotgun (for $69.95), the Model 870 BC Special Grade shotgun (for $81.45), the Model 870 ADL Deluxe Grade shotgun (for $79.95), the Model 870 BDL Deluxe Special Grade shotgun (for $91.45), Model 870D Tournament Grade (for $195.00), Model 870F Premier Grade (for $185.00), Model 870TC Trap Grade (for $159.95), Model 870TD Trap Tournament Grade (for $228.00), Model 870TF Trap Premier Grade (for $178.55), Model 870S Trap Special Grade (for $89.95), Model 870SA Skeet Grade (for $79.95), Model 870SB Skeet Special Grade (for $91.45), Model 870SD Skeet Tournament Grade (for $225.00), Model 870SF Skeet Premier Grade and the Model 870R Riot Grade with 20" barrel (for $69.95). Remington Price List - May 1950

Also model 31s had banded barrels that were said to be model 29 barrels left over that bands were put on but 870 some early ones had the extension that screwed on and you can see the seam but there were no bands like a 31 at least I have never seen one in all my years around them.I am thinking they used that extension until late 1959 so they would have had to have a hell of a lot of old 31 barrels laying around if they were truely banded
But for sure they are known for finding a box of old parts and using them years later

Don't believe everything on the internet my friend. Cheers
 
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Geez, for someone with over 7000 internet posts, you really seem pressed for time. Bottom line, I'm posting photos and reading references. If someone points out I'm wrong, great, I posted this to prompt info sharing. Why are you adding clearly irritated tone to your posts?

It is customary that when someone posts with data and examples for a refute to include evidence beyond an anonymous "trust me, I visited the factory many years ago and own a 1963 example".

I don't know you and have no basis for whether your view is reliable or out in left field. I hope you understand?

Thanks for the 1950 price list. I did not have that. I'll add 1950 when I'm not typing on my phone.

In your view are any other aspects wrong for an early gun?
 
Geez, for someone with over 7000 internet posts, you really seem pressed for time. Bottom line, I'm posting photos and reading references. If someone points out I'm wrong, great, I posted this to prompt info sharing. Why are you adding clearly irritated tone to your posts?

It is customary that when someone posts with data and examples for a refute to include evidence beyond an anonymous "trust me, I visited the factory many years ago and own a 1963 example".

I don't know you and have no basis for whether your view is reliable or out in left field. I hope you understand?

Thanks for the 1950 price list. I did not have that. I'll add 1950 when I'm not typing on my phone.

In your view are any other aspects wrong for an early gun?

Here we go the personnel attack starts as expected. I don't need to provide any evidence it is you that needs the information and has this project and interest in the fine details not me
Irritated tone. I apologize for that but perhaps I come across like that maybe since wingmasters are close to my heart and it stands the hair up on my neck when information is posted about them that is not correct and I am sorry but I didnot want to turn this into me attacking your work or discoveries but please don't present it as gospel for those to use when you didnot even get the first production date correct. I honestly see no value in dissecting the wingmaster year by year since over all they interchange parts from 1950 to today which is all 99% of the owners care about
Cheers
Oh yes I am glad you own a 1963 example . You have a good firearm.
That price list was may 1950. I think there was one earlier perhaps the initial flyer would vary slightly but not 100% sure
You can pick one of the original introduction flyers from 1950 on e-bay for like 20 bucks . Note not all corn cobs as discussed
 
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Here we go the personnel attack starts as expected. I don't need to provide you any evidence it is you that needs the information and has this interest not me
Irritated tone. I apologize for that but perhaps I come across like that maybe since wingmasters are close to my heart and it stands the hair up on my neck when information is posted about them that is not correct and I am sorry but I didnot want to turn this into me attacking your work or discoveries but please don't present it as gospel for those to use when you didnot even get the first production date correct. I honestly see no value in dissecting the wingmaster year by year since over all they interchange parts from 1950 to today which is all 99% of the owners care about
Cheers
Oh yes I am glad you own a 1963 example . You have a good firearm.

To be clear: I am NOT trying to personally attack you and I am truly sorry if you took it that way. As promised, I amended my original post to indicate 1950 and credited you with that input. I think we are both overlooking that a passionate love of a shotgun design can make people emotive when rational discussion would produce better results all-round.

I personally own a few Wingmasters and like them a lot as pumps go. I also work on them frequently for others, which lets me see more of them than I otherwise would.

I appreciate your concern, but I knew about the oft-cited January 1950 date for production start and was not ignorantly posting, but I consciously went with 1951 in my initial post as I have never personally seen a 1950, have never seen a verifiable picture of a 1950, and the references I had close to hand all said 1951. I concede the point since you posted the price list, which is good enough for me. I can't stress this enough though, I'm not purporting to be an authoritative source on early Wingmasters, and I welcome input.

You may not value my posting about the small variations, but to me, I find it interesting and it does matter to me. I hope you can respect my interest in seeing/hearing from the community on anything else I've overlooked or gotten incorrect.

I would caution though, they are truly not interchangeable from 1950 to present day. I can personally attest from having tried it earlier today, a 1974 locking bolt (or really any post-1953 locking bolt) will not go into a 1951 bolt. I haven't tried it, but I'm not sure a post-53 firing pin will give reliable ignition in an early bolt either.

Happy shooting!
 
To be clear: I am NOT trying to personally attack you and I am truly sorry if you took it that way. As promised, I amended my original post to indicate 1950 and credited you with that input. I think we are both overlooking that a passionate love of a shotgun design can make people emotive when rational discussion would produce better results all-round.

I personally own a few Wingmasters and like them a lot as pumps go. I also work on them frequently for others, which lets me see more of them than I otherwise would.

I appreciate your concern, but I knew about the oft-cited January 1950 date for production start and was not ignorantly posting, but I consciously went with 1951 in my initial post as I have never personally seen a 1950, have never seen a verifiable picture of a 1950, and the references I had close to hand all said 1951. I concede the point since you posted the price list, which is good enough for me. I can't stress this enough though, I'm not purporting to be an authoritative source on early Wingmasters, and I welcome input.

You may not value my posting about the small variations, but to me, I find it interesting and it does matter to me. I hope you can respect my interest in seeing/hearing from the community on anything else I've overlooked or gotten incorrect.

I would caution though, they are truly not interchangeable from 1950 to present day. I can personally attest from having tried it earlier today, a 1974 locking bolt (or really any post-1953 locking bolt) will not go into a 1951 bolt. I haven't tried it, but I'm not sure a post-53 firing pin will give reliable ignition in an early bolt either.

Happy shooting!

Are you changing the complete assembly or just pieces
Thanks for the credit on the 1950 ;)
 
Note not all corn cobs as discussed

Another great data point - thanks. Do you happen to know if the non-corn cob versions used the short nut or the taller one?

Another tidbit I noticed, early Wingmasters have dark brown Bakelite buttplates. At some point, Remington switched to black plastic before offering (much later on) versions with factory butt pads. I'm not sure when they dropped the brown Bakelite, many of the guns I see are no longer original in this regard, people often added pads later in the life of the guns.
 
Honestly the best help I can give is for you to buy this book. It is pretty good and will explain a lot of the items you are courious about
Some where in my basement there is a tote with all of my original remington sales broucheurs from 1950 to I think about 2004 when I stopped. They got buried with tons of other stuff when we had to do a room over back there. I just started last week opening some when I was selling off some reloading gear for a friend. Totes of 870 & 1100 parts, stocks you name it. And if you think I am full of crap. I think there is still more working wingmasters than I have fingers and toes still in my herd. I just make them work and never cared what year the part came from since it would fit even if it had to be an assembly and honestly didnot care if it was a little different individually
Cheers
This is the book
 
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Month Codes: [first letter]
B - L - A - C - K - P - O - W - D - E - R - X
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12

Year:______Code: [second (and third * letters]

1950____*___ WW
1951____*___ XX
1952____*___ YY
1953____*___ ZZ
1954_______ A
1955_______ B
1956_______ C
1957_______ D
1958_______ E
1959_______ F
1960_______ G
1961_______ H
1962_______ J
1963_______ K
1964_______ L

Thanks posting this info. . I pulled my Dad's old Wingmaster out of the safe and there it was "ZZ" 1953. . My Dad bought the gun new at Woodwards in Vancouver in the early 1950's. . I remember, countless times, tagging along with my Dad, pheasant hunting in the Fraser Valley, when I was a small boy. . He'd let me carry the gun, from the vehicle to serious hunting, and I felt so proud. My Dad brought down a ton of birds with this gun and even shot trap with it..

In my teens I used this shotgun, on Sumas Prairie, hunting everything from ducks to pheasant. . I don't doubt thousands of rounds have been run through this gun and it still functions as it should.
 
Thanks posting this info. . I pulled my Dad's old Wingmaster out of the safe and there it was "ZZ" 1953. . My Dad bought the gun new at Woodwards in Vancouver in the early 1950's. . I remember, countless times, tagging along with my Dad, pheasant hunting in the Fraser Valley, when I was a small boy. . He'd let me carry the gun, from the vehicle to serious hunting, and I felt so proud. My Dad brought down a ton of birds with this gun and even shot trap with it..

In my teens I used this shotgun, on Sumas Prairie, hunting everything from ducks to pheasant. . I don't doubt thousands of rounds have been run through this gun and it still functions as it should.

What a great story! Got any photos of the shotgun, anyone clicking on this thread is going to be a sucker for photos of the oldest Wingmasters. 1953 is still a really early example.
 
Me I like them all but if I had to pick a favorite it would be the 28ga by far and those years. Even had some hats made at one time
Especially a matched pair of 870's with the 28/410 Cheers

 
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