Second year production 870 (1951) vs. later 870 - key differences explained.

Rod said:
Thanks posting this info. . I pulled my Dad's old Wingmaster out of the safe and there it was "ZZ" 1953. . My Dad bought the gun new at Woodwards in Vancouver in the early 1950's. . I remember, countless times, tagging along with my Dad, pheasant hunting in the Fraser Valley, when I was a small boy. . He'd let me carry the gun, from the vehicle to serious hunting, and I felt so proud. My Dad brought down a ton of birds with this gun and even shot trap with it..

In my teens I used this shotgun, on Sumas Prairie, hunting everything from ducks to pheasant. . I don't doubt thousands of rounds have been run through this gun and it still functions as it should.
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Cool Story thanks for sharing. here is the complete post if someone needs it
Cheers
According to the "Blue Book of Gun Values", the coding continues as follows (edited to reflect the intro year of the OP's Model 870) :

Month Codes: [first letter]
B - L - A - C - K - P - O - W - D - E - R - X
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12

Year:______Code: [second (and third * letters]

1950____*___ WW
1951____*___ XX
1952____*___ YY
1953____*___ ZZ
1954_______ A
1955_______ B
1956_______ C
1957_______ D
1958_______ E
1959_______ F
1960_______ G
1961_______ H
1962_______ J
1963_______ K
1964_______ L
1965_______ M
1966_______ N
1967_______ P
1968_______ R
1969_______ S
1970_______ T
1971_______ U
1972_______ W
1973_______ X
1974_______ Y
1975_______ Z
1976_______ I
1977_______ O
1978_______ Q
1979_______ V
1980_______ A
1981_______ B
1982_______ C
1983_______ D
1984_______ E
1985_______ F
1986_______ G
1987_______ H
1988_______ I
1989_______ J
1990_______ K
1991_______ L
1992_______ M
1993_______ N
1994_______ O
1995_______ P
1996_______ Q
1997_______ R
1998_______ S
1999_______ T
2000_______ U
2001_______ W
2002_______ X

As maybe seen, the year code letters duplicate; some knowledge of when the model was introduced should resolve the actual year of manufacture.
 
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The Rem-Choke was first offered in 1986, so if you're confident your barrel is original to your receiver and it takes replaceable chokes, that is one way to narrow whether an 870 was made in, for example, 1986 vs. 1960.
 
Claven2 said:
The Rem-Choke was first offered in 1986, so if you're confident your barrel is original to your receiver and it takes replaceable chokes, that is one way to narrow whether an 870 was made in, for example, 1986 vs. 1960.
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Yes and No . You have to be careful with your blanket statement
Are we going to do this all night ;) :)
Remington released the rem choke in late 1986 yes but only in 12 ga and only in some Barrel lengths not them all and definately not in 30" 12ga for sure. Also the 20ga and others were also not fitted until some time in probally mid 1987

There was also a very limited use of Briley choke tubes in the 85/86 years on some select 870's and 1100's which had a special flat thread as Briley calls it. I have one 1985 1100 DU gun like that and have seen some 870's with it normally higher end guns
They ressemble rem chokes just to make is confusing other than a flattened thread and are very hard to find and special order from briley if you have them in your gun

Almost 15 years ago for my 1985
Chokes for your gun will have to be custom made by using one of your factory chokes as a sample. We can duplicate that choke to any constriction you want flush or extended.
Custom flush choke $65 each
Custom extended choke (maximum length of extension is 1 inch) $85 each
whenever you're ready, we'll be here.
keep this info on hand and you can order.
s-25, bore .730

Seriously you will love the book but it is expensive if I recall
　

take care
 
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Fair enough, I was talking in generalities there. Basically there are ways to know what era any given gun is made apart from the date code.
 
Claven2 said:
Fair enough, I was talking in generalities there. Basically there are ways to know what era any given gun is made apart from the date code.
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Yes for sure but when talking wingmasters one is never 100% sure unless they are looking at an original gun that has been unaltered which is getting harder and harder to find. So many have been modified it is unreal especially since they are highly in demand by the black/ green gun dudes
I have seen so many just put together and resold with what is left over from a bunch of guns of various years after a home defense or whatever build is quite common now
With so many being produced parts are everywhere and barrel swaps are so common god knows what year barrel is put on any gun, wood is the same many have been switched out.Serial number on the receiver will nail down the year and with a matched barrel code probally pretty safe to say yep she is original but not always
I will give you a small example. I have a 16ga here very early 60's. I upgraded it with the later fluer de lis wood, she has a vent rib rem choked barrel on it, newer green plastic mag tube plug and follower, new design shell lifter etc etc. She looks just like a second release 16ga wingmaster not an early 60's
See what I mean.
take care

My take on wingmasters is they are still one of the very few firearms still produced with some quality in them and they work and work well.
They are not collector guns and a few fools like me saved some since not for the potential investment value but because they shoulder perfect for me and I like them. I won't lose any money on them but I wont make any like a model 12 28ga or winchester model 21 I have.
Thus I don't care what parts or years of parts I put in one to make it the way I like it since it doesn't hurt the value anyway. Yes I have still some NIB some for 35 years but even those are just 500.00 guns today others than one the new 3 1/2 wingmaster which pending if remington ever makes it again could we worth keeping as an investment
Cheers
 
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Hey 3macs1 I was at a sale Saturday and got tickets on a rem 11 48 in 28g 1954.a goid friend of my dad's donated this gun to the ruff grouse society. Do you know him W C. And what do you think this gin should be worth .and I know you live your rem do you have any 11 48 shotguns ....Dutch
 
dutchhunter said:
Hey 3macs1 I was at a sale Saturday and got tickets on a rem 11 48 in 28g 1954.a goid friend of my dad's donated this gun to the ruff grouse society. Do you know him W C. And what do you think this gin should be worth .and I know you live your rem do you have any 11 48 shotguns ....Dutch
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Hi Dutch
I just have but one 1148 now but did have some over the years.They work good
The only one I have is a 28ga and if I recall I think I paid 450 or 500 for it
Choke makes a difference on them with skeet getting a few more dollars. Cannot place a WC
Cheers
 
I've had a couple 1950 produced 870s...both 4digit numbers without prefix or suffix.onr 2### & the other 5###. I think I still have the 5### but I'm not 100% sure. The 2### actually had a "UU" date code on the barrel. I will see if I can find old pics. Will also see if I have pics of the unmarked Vari-weight plug we found in the 2###. The later ones had patent number stamped on it.
 
Any guns that are non-machine engraved will be worth a premium. This holds true of basically any maker, not just Remington. There is nothing like the beauty of a hand-engraved firearm (assuming the artist was a capable fellow!).
 
VLT79 said:
I've had a couple 1950 produced 870s...both 4digit numbers without prefix or suffix.onr 2### & the other 5###. I think I still have the 5### but I'm not 100% sure. The 2### actually had a "UU" date code on the barrel. I will see if I can find old pics. Will also see if I have pics of the unmarked Vari-weight plug we found in the 2###. The later ones had patent number stamped on it.
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HEY you know you have too many when you cannot remember what you still have LOL
I know that feeling ;)
I know I have one 1950 for sure and something tells me I have another in skeet I picked up from madtrapper. Maybe he would remember since I'll be dammed if I am going to take off a pile of gun socks to find it
Did you pick up any more of the 3 1/2 wingmaster. I remember you got one
That was the one I got from trapper, early version for sure
Cheers
 
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dutchhunter said:
Nice pair .I am still looking for a 3.5 inch wing master. Dutch
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I would say state side would be the only place now unless you get super lucky. I preordered mine when I heard they were coming out in 2001 or 2002 I forget and I think they brought 6 in there. I know VLT79 got one but I think it was state side but could be wrong
The bottom 1100 16ga was sold back to it's original owner since he wanted it back and I had four 16ga 1100 , three of which were just being safe queens. Nice to see she is back in action at the duck ponds
Cheers
 
Can't find pics of those 2 1949-1950 shotguns and the 1950 isn't here in FSJ, so either in Athabasca or I sold it too. I have not picked up anymore Wingmaster Super Magnums and I did indeed import that one from the USA...probably not a wise thing to do now with the exchange rate being the way it is. On another note...I found out a friend has a 1982 production NIB 870 Competition Trap...and his buddy has a NIB one as well. Could be a score of a lifetime! Haha!
 
I've got an A XX [III-51] Model 870, and it's almost completely like in the first post. (I'd like to get a December, 1951, Wingmaster, coded ###!)

Starting out, it's where the difference is: the bolt is the old style, with the drop-out locking block, but the body has no relief cut and the rear striking surface of the firing pin is not extended. Bolt carrier same as illustrated, extractor profile, bottom cut.

Otherwise I've got the Alcoa trigger housing, smooth magazine spring retainer, long ‘no-jam’ follower, _annoying_ short foreend nut (holding a non- corn cob), and so on.

The original 28" IC ‘banded’ barrel has the receiver's serial number stamped as well, which they stopped later (when?).

I'm not arguing about dates, but it should be noted that announcing isn't the same as producing, and producing isn't the same as selling. This is surely where some of the confusion arises. Remington's own web site states, and has always stated as far as I can see, 1951 for the introduction. Then to add confusion, on a history page they would give 1950 for the different grades of Wingmasters!
 
Guys there is no confusion unless one wants to believe the internet and Wikipedia
Quick question for you guys
Remington produced the last model 31 in 1949 so they didnot have a pump gun to sell until 1951
Think about that one . That alone sold me many years ago

Cheers
 
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Jan 1947 Remington was losing business to the model 12 and authorized $2000 for a feasibility study for a new shotgun to compete
Feb 1948 Remington released $20,000 to develop a new design that had a relation ship with the successful model 11-48
Oct 1948 Remington released $790,000 to produce tooling to manufacturer a newly designed pump action shotgun
Nov 1949 Remington stopped production of the money losing model 31
Jan 1950 Remington launched it's newly produced pump action shotgun to the public the Model 870 Wingmaster
BY May 1950 Remington increased the offering up to now 15 new versions of the new 870 wingmaster

But one had to wait until 1951 per the internet to get their hands on one. NOT in your life
The official history of Remington claims the 870 was introduced/ produced in January 1950. So do the various Remington 870 collectors organizations, and you know how picky they are. A place on the Remington website and some gun publications claim the 870 came out in 1951 but they are wrong. Remington didnot go a year with no pump gun to sell with $800,000 invested which was huge money in those days and still is today IMO
Cheers

Look at the serial number of this barrel meaning how many were made previously
KWW is may 1950 to me
 
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red_bailey said:
I've got an A XX [III-51] rt foreend nut (holding a non- corn cob), and so on.

The original 28" IC ‘banded’ barrel has the receiver's serial number stamped as well, which they stopped later (when?).
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That's cool. I'd love to have a factory IC banded barrel. The gun in the original post is actually a 16gauge receiver, which is identical to a 12 except for the size of the magazine constriction where the tube is brazed into the action. It shipped with a 28" field barrel (i.e. no vent rib) and a fixed full choke.

Some may think it's sacrilege, but I opened it up to modified for the owner (expanding reamer method) and did the metal prep, it was externally pretty pitted and tired. The wood was also stripped, steamed, scraped, and re-fnished in tru-oil. It's was a nice piece of old-growth black walnut under all the grime and gunk.

Luckily the bore and the internals had been swabbed in grease (looked like cosmolene - makes me wonder if some agency once owned it?) when it got stored and it cleaned up to as-new. I subbed-out the re-blueing to Gunco in Ottawa. It looks really nice now, I could not get all the pitting out near the roll stamps, but what remains is really minor. It's back to looking like a nice gun again, ready for another 65 years of service with a choke that is more useful with modern shells.

As a side note, given the external unsightly condition, the gun was acquired, I'm told, for $150 - functional with a full choke, but plenty of cosmetic issues. The owner has sunk another $300 into it now in labour to get it where it sits. Nice ones can be had on the EE for about $450-500 (a couple listed at that right now - they might sell for less?), so we're in that ballpark, but it's been fully disassembled, cleaned up, and the choke changed. To some this would not have been worth it, but I'm glad I was able to help save another really early example and see it put back into the field :)
 
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Can you guys please share a pic of one of these 870 banded barrels. I would love to see one since I never have in my travels with 870's unless I call it something different
Cheers
One like this maybe??

 
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