Seeking .223/90 FTR build info

Q

QueensHorseman

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Hi,

I'm seeking info from people who have actually tried the .223 loaded with 90 grain VLD or SMK bullets for FTR competition. I've read of the need for bushed firing pin work to deal with the pressures, etc so action suggestions, your cartridge OAL, crush fit or off the lands, barrel length, etc would be most helpful. I've heard of several people using the Barnard S action but what are some other options?

I currently shoot .308 in more of a tactical rifle as opposed to a full out FTR rig and have considered having a .223/90 rifle built to try. I'm not looking for a debate about the merits of the .223/90 load vs the heavy weight .308 please. 🙏 Actual experience would be most helpful.

Thanks. đź‘Ť
 
800 metres is our max range and I'm in NS so winds vary considerably? I'm not all that competitive and I understand the thought that despite the high BC, the lighter bullet is more wind sensitive than a 185 or heavier .308 load. I usually shoot the 175 grain SMK because I'm familiar with that load. I'm not a gamer but the heavy .223 seems like it could be fun to try and perhaps I could get one of my daughter out shooting with me. They definitely are not interested in the .308! My oldest was shooting my .223 sporter last weekend out to 200 metres and enjoyed it.

Thanks for the link to the older thread.
 
Beyond 600m, stay with the 308. The 223 has been tried and a few still use it but in the heavy winds, it becomes increasingly hard to drive.

For low recoil option, you can hot rod the 155/155.5gr family of bullets. It will be what the TR shooters use so it is functional but will bounce around ALOT in the wind.

185 Juggernauts is the go to for FTR when recoil is an issue BUT again, they are at a disadvantage in high winds vs the heavies. In lighter winds, they are superbly accurate.

If recoil is an issue, skip FTR completely and go to Open. Shoot a 6.5X47L, 260 Rem and I bet the recoil is very useable for the girls.

There are a few recoil reducing options but most you have to build yourself.

Jerry
 
QueensHorseman your idea of making a FTR in 223 are great it will allow your children, & wife to enjoy the sport of F class.shooting.
Give Peter at Hirsh Precision a call and get yourself a Barnard S you need not bush firing pin with a Barnard and for me there not a better action available and at good price.Check with other suppliers like Jerry for a 1/7 twist to finish at 30" and contact Ian Robertson he the man to put it together he has built many tac driving 223s
PM me if you would like more info on loading for 223
manitou
 
If you are already ordering your action from Peter at Hirsch, just get a Krieger or Bartlien from him at the same time! His pricing is fantastic on his barrels and he has pretty good inventory as well. Peter is great to work with. I have purchased nearly a dozen barrels from Peter, always a pleasure to deal with.
 
Thanks everyone, you have given me lots to consider. I was actually at the range this evening and spoke to Peter who was also there shooting. I've bought brass from him before and I'm fortunate that his business is near me.
 
I'm new in the 223 set up and have never heard of the need to bush a bolt. I built mine on a Savage model 11 action, do I need to get it bushed or a PTG bolt head? I've had very little chance to work with the rifle since having it built over a year ago.
 
Been there, done that.
Was a great idea in theory. Spent one summer at NSRA tweaking loads, and finally decided shooting at 800, and 900m is hard enough with a good .308, why make it more challenging.
I do have some 90g Bergers around if you are interested.

I was using a trued Remington 700 action and a 7 twist Schillen match barrel, put together by Sam Adams at the time.
A Barnard S, or P with a Bartlein barrel would be the way to go for sure.
 
Consider setting up for the 80 gr class bullets instead of 90s. I see Berger is now suggesting 1:6 as optimum twist for 90s. In my limited experience with the 90s I found my 1:7 Brux really liked the 90BT but I had a helluva time tuning 90 VLDS to be consistently good. Berger doesn't make the 90BT anymore so I went in search of something a little lighter. Berger alone has the 80.5 Fullbore, 82BT, and 80VLD. Sierra and Hornady have offerings as well. (Sierra is recommending 1:6.5 twist for 90s). You will lose a bit of BC dropping down to the 80 gr. class of bullet, but it is still decent. You have more choice in bullets and they (in my experience) are easier to tune. Just another 2 cents for the pot.
 
wapitiwhacker said:
Consider setting up for the 80 gr class bullets instead of 90s. I see Berger is now suggesting 1:6 as optimum twist for 90s. In my limited experience with the 90s I found my 1:7 Brux really liked the 90BT but I had a helluva time tuning 90 VLDS to be consistently good. Berger doesn't make the 90BT anymore so I went in search of something a little lighter. Berger alone has the 80.5 Fullbore, 82BT, and 80VLD. Sierra and Hornady have offerings as well. (Sierra is recommending 1:6.5 twist for 90s). You will lose a bit of BC dropping down to the 80 gr. class of bullet, but it is still decent. You have more choice in bullets and they (in my experience) are easier to tune. Just another 2 cents for the pot.
Click to expand...

Great point regarding the 80s I also noticed that Berger increased their recommended twist rate on the 82BT to a 7t it was a 8t before and 82bt shoot very well in an 8t.
 
Canadian marksman had a great article in the last coule of years called

The mouse that roared

I built a gun Robertson chambered with help from Paul manitou

It shot ages. 5 shot groups in the low threes

But 15 THOU JAM DOES NOT LEND ITSELF TO UNLOAD ON A CEASE FIRE

When they do not let you clear your gun by firing when safe to do so

90. 'S can shoot very well when you find the very very narrow load window I.e. 5 hundreds of a grain wide no kidding

Barrel contour needs to be appropriate as well
Later Jefferson
 
90. 'S can shoot very well when you find the very very narrow load window I.e. 5 hundreds of a grain wide no kidding (Jefferson)

This was my experience as well. Was spending much more time on load development than shooting. Had some very accurate loads at short range 300m and 500m, but once I had enough velocity for decent 800m and 900m loads, the accuracy went away.
 
sorting the brass by weight and case capacity is just as important as the powder weight with the 90/223 combo, the small case does not play well with varying amounts of pressure, and slight temperature swings with any temperature sensitive powder will not print good groups, bigger cases are more forgiving for sure.
 
I just put together a 223 1-8 for my soon to be 13 year old son to shoot f-class with and went straight for the 80 grainers after hearing from quite a few shooters on how hard the 90's were to tune.
The 80's work good but what I've discovered is that the 223 needs very uniform powder charges to tame the vertical , at 685 yds while doing some load development 1/2 of a grain of powder was raising or lowering my groups over 2 minutes.

I went as far as buying a new powder scale to try and get an advantage on weight charges , it shoots good but won't keep up with a 308 in the wind or at distance from what I can see.
 
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