Seeking advice and wisdom

[dilly]

Hello all muzzleloader veterans. I got the bug this fall after borrowing a CVU hunter bolt from my Dad and getting two deer with it. I sighted the gun in with 150grains of pyrodex (3 pellets), a cheddite 209 primer and a 245grain powerbelt bullet. I couldn't get the gun to group better than 8" at 100 yards. It worked for the close range shots I took, but I had to pass on a truly huge 10 pointer that was at 226 yards. So, my new mission is to try to get 200 yard performance out of a muzzleloader.

Looking back I think I was overloading the CVA and likely could have dialed it in better, but since it wasn't my gun, I decided to just start fresh. Below is what I have to work with...

I picked up a lightly used Thompson Center Impact. I prefer the break open action and read many good reviews on this "entry level" rifle. It came with a Leupold base and rings.

Cabelas had their Nikon in-line muzzleloader scope on sale with the bullet drop compensator reticle, so I got one and mounted it.

I liked the convenience of pellets but wanted the ability to fine tune for accuracy, so I went with Blackhorn 209. I grabbed lots of Barnes Spitfire TMZ 250grain sabots and intend to use Cheddite 209 primers for ignition.

I guess what I am asking is, where should I start? I have a powder measure and flask on order as well as a range rod adapter and cleaning stuff. I intend to use a chronograph when I work up a load that groups and kills out to 200 yards.

What am I missing? anyone already using this combination

 

[Willy Tincup]

I have a TC Encore and it does not like maximum loads. I'm still using up some older Clean Shot powder and shooting 90grs. Even if I go up to 100 grs the group starts to open up, but at 90 grs it will oftens put 2 bullets into the same hole IF I do my part.
Another problem I experienced this year was the bullet to sabot match up wasn't large enough in some combinations. The sabots loaded with very little resistance and thus didn't shoot worth a hoot. Just something to be aware of. Cheers

PS: Another local shooter was at the range 1 day I was there and he was using Blackhorn and getting horrible results. He tried some other powder and his gun shot very well. He was headed back to the store last time I saw him and was not very happy with the Blackhorn powder. That one instance is a pretty small sample size to grade a powder on.

 

[brts28]

I use Blackhorn 209 and found that I had to use about 15-20% less powder than what I was using previously. I think that its got a little more ooomph than the stuff I had before. other than that it shot fine for me 2" +/- @ 100yrds. I have TC encore with a Nikon inline muzzle loader scope. it did take me a fair bit of experimenting with charge volume to find my load tho

 

[BOBXXX]

I use Blackhorn 209 in a Remington Ultimate Muzzle loader. I prefer to actually wiegh the powder in grains than use the volumetric measure. I find you get a lot more consistent charge. I have some of the speed loader tubes and just use my RCBS chargemaster or the manual hand thrower and powder trickler

 

[dilly]

I got out and put about 26 shots through the new gun. I discovered a loose scope issue and once I got things tight, it seemed to work out. See below for summary.

I started of at 85gr (volumetric measure) of powder and worked up to 105gr. The gun seemed happiest at 100gr of powder. Measured on a chrony, the average muzzle velocity was around 1920fps. The TMZ bullets were seated with a Barnes "aligner tool" that screws on the end of the rod. They are VERY tight. All my shots were with a cold clean barrel. I pulled the plug every time and cleaned the barrel. The Cheddite primers never failed to ignite. Some observations:

1) Blackhorn is less smoky than the Pyrodex pellets I have used in my Dad's gun. It does not form a "crud ring" and is easy to clean with a regular patch soaked in bore solvent. No water based cleaners needed. The powder itself looks like tiny extruded "tubes". It flows easily and resembles some smokeless powder I've seen.

2) The TMZ bullets are really tight in the Impact. Not a bad thing I suppose.

3) The Cheddite primer was plenty hot enough to ignite the powder. After 30 shots, the flash hole was still clear. I scrubbed it out at the end, but you could always see light through it. I also used "Gorilla Grease" on the plug and it never seized.

After all the testing was through, I ended up with this...

100yards

200yards

If you want to see what the smoke is like, here is a little video.
http://vid238.photobucket.com/albums/ff257/dilly541/muzzleloader_zpsbre1e8ps.mp4

It was a bit windy today so the 200 yard pattern may have blew a bit right. The BDC reticle and the "Spot on" app did work. Once I got the muzzle velocity entered right in the app, it pretty much told you what the hold over was for the given magnification level.

The goal was to be able to make a reliable shot at a deer at 200 yards. I think I am there. Thanks for the tips I got from some of you, and a special thanks to Ahsan who gave me the powder spout. It sure made things easier.

 

[Jay]

I also have the TC Impact & use BlackHorn 209 with Cheddite primers. It's definitely a decent setup & I am confident in it.

I have not shot out to 200 with it, I should put that on the 'to do' list!

I also weigh my powder charges, it is definitely better than volume as it's more accurate.

Cheers
Jay

 

[hunter148]

For what it is worth my nephew shoots the same gun and this is what he uses. 90 grns of FFFg triple 7 with a 200 grn shockwave sabot(an SST with a different colour tip), Triple 7 primers. If you want the distance you have to lighten up the bullets. I am shooting a TC Encore that shoots 0-200 with about 4 inches of trajectory over that distance. So just hold on the furnace and you are good, no Kentucky windage involved. That gun shoots 100grnsFFFG T7, 195 grn, pure lead, 357 Duplex sabot, lit with a CCI400 small rifle primer.

I will agree I have not seen a TC yet that likes max loads. I have not used Blackhorn so if you need the Cheddite primer to light it fine but IMO they are to hot and will unseat the bullet before the powder fully ignites and this causes those unexplained fliers. Changing how I light the powder has tightened groups considerably and shotgun primers are hot againIMO.