Seeking primer Info

[r.j.medals2]

Greetings I have an 8x57 jr rifle and the ammo is misfiring with some of the primers . Does anyone know who has 'softer' primers either large rifle or large rifle magnum ? Also i am looking for a neck resizer for the 8mm jr , Thank-you.

 

[iceman2]

Federal is supposed to have the softest metal.

 

[Fargone4sure]

Yes, federal is much softer.

 

[Ron AKA]

Greetings I have an 8x57 jr rifle and the ammo is misfiring with some of the primers . Does anyone know who has 'softer' primers either large rifle or large rifle magnum ? Also i am looking for a neck resizer for the 8mm jr , Thank-you.

Soft vs hard primers may be more myth than fact. Large rifle primers are all made to the same thickness, and the middle of the primer sees almost no work hardening, so they really all should be "soft". In small primers there are difference in thickness, but not the large.

There may be other issues causing your problem. Are your primer pockets clean? Could you be seating them too high without contact at the bottom of the pocket? Or crushing them? A hand primer like the Lee Auto-Prime is not too expensive, and can help a lot with feel, so they are seated properly. The other issue is headspace. Could it be that your resized cartridges have too much headspace and when the firing pin falls, it bangs the whole cartridge forward in the chamber losing energy? You chould see this in measuring your case length before and after firing. You can neck size with a full length die. Just short stroke your press so 2/3 or 80% of the neck is sized instead of it all. This also prevents over sizing of the case and excessive headspace. And how about the firing pin section of the bolt? Clean? Too much heavy oil? I like to clean my bolts with carburetor cleaner or throttle body cleaner and only leave the residual oil from the cleaner in bolt.

I believe CH4D make dies for the 8x57 JR .318 bullet. No idea who might represent them in Canada...

 

[bigedp51]

Greetings I have an 8x57 jr rifle and the ammo is misfiring with some of the primers . Does anyone know who has 'softer' primers either large rifle or large rifle magnum ? Also i am looking for a neck resizer for the 8mm jr , Thank-you.

Are the primers protruding from the cases that did fire, if they are this can indicate excessive head clearance/headspace.

This can be cured by fire forming the cases and blowing the case shoulder forward.

If you are full length resizing your cases it also may mean your pushing the case shoulder back too far during sizing.

When you push the case shoulder back too far you increase the head clearance and move the case away from the firing pin.

Note, many milsurp rifles have excess headspace by SAAMI standards, as an example a British Enfield rifle at maximum military headspace can have .017 head clearance.

Once a rifle like this has fire formed brass the head clearance will be near zero by neck sizing and minimum shoulder bump if full length resizing.

 

[dirtybarry]

Like Ron AKA said, check your bolt and firing pin cleanliness. Some guns are extremely picky about how clean and how much or type of lube.

 

[SND]

2 different primers of same thickness can have a different hardness, and its very well known that some primers flow/deform a lot more easily.

As to misfires there's always a few possibilities.

 

[bigedp51]

Soft vs hard primers may be more myth than fact. Large rifle primers are all made to the same thickness, and the middle of the primer sees almost no work hardening, so they really all should be "soft". In small primers there are difference in thickness, but not the large.

Ron AKA, you need to find another hobby you know something about.

Primers and Pressure Analysis
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/primers-and-pressure-analysis/

"Another factor which determines the strength of a primer cup is the work-hardened state of the metal used to make the primer cup. Most primers are made with cartridge brass (70% copper, 30% zinc), which can vary from 46,000 psi, soft, to 76,000 psi tensile strength when fully hardened. Note that manufacturers specify the hardness of metal desired, so some cups are definitely “harder” that others."

Below the CCI drawing of their large rifle #41 mil-spec primer, this cup is thicker and harder at the base of the cup.

Now we have a new sunray in the forum passing out bad information.

 

[Collint2005]

I haven't seen any Sunray nonsense for a while. Did he finally get kicked off?

 

[bigedp51]

I haven't seen any Sunray nonsense for a while. Did he finally get kicked off?

Yes he was kicked off and he moved south into our American forums.

sunray did not do well in our American Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) reloading forums against the people who shoot at Camp Perry.

But now we have a sunray replacement here in this forum passing out bad information.

So all you new reloaders remember you have midgets sitting at their computers pretending to be giants.

You have been warned, double and tripple check anything you read in forums.

 

[r.j.medals2]

Just to clear up some issues , this rifle is not military or surplus but an Imman Meffert Drilling 16 x 16 ga over 8 x 57 jr cal [7.8 mm or 318 dia]. The original Norma ammo i have works fine and i have tried some CCI primers [magnum] which required a second strike to fire. I use a lee auto-prime tool and there are no signs of high pressure [extruded or flattend primer]. Thanks for all the info, Cheers.

 

[StoneHorse]

You have been warned, double and tripple check anything you read in forums.

BS usually gets outed pretty quickly. Having said that, some people are just honestly passing along things they have heard without any intent to deceive or mislead. The problem comes about when someone does pass along incorrect information, is corrected by those in the know then refuse to believe it. Continuing to spout the same wrong information time and time again.

 

[bugs]

if they fire on second strike this is a sign that you are not seating them deep enough they should be below flush you can check by running your finger over the end of the case you will feel a high primer. After loading for 40 plus years I find it is rarly the primr at fault when misfires occur. what part of the island are you located good luck

 

[Ron AKA]

i have tried some CCI primers [magnum] which required a second strike to fire.

CCI primers are probably the most trusted and popular primers. I think you are barking up the wrong tree by blaming the primers. Either they are not seated properly, or you have excessive headspace, or the firing pin is gunked up. Those would be my guesses.

 

[Ganderite]

Federal uses a different composition in the priming compound, compared to the other makers. It is more sensitive. In any gun with misfires, assuming the primers are properly seated, the next solution to try is Federal Primers. I have several guns that will only provide 100% ignition if Federal primers are used.

 

[jpbcal308]

Greetings I have an 8x57 jr rifle and the ammo is misfiring with some of the primers . Does anyone know who has 'softer' primers either large rifle or large rifle magnum ? Also i am looking for a neck resizer for the 8mm jr , Thank-you.

You are on the right track, neck seizing after the case is fireform to the chamber is the solution.