Self defense while hunting?
- Thread starter BSproff
- Start date
skneub
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Twice it has happened over the years.
Once with Dad , lungshot moose we walked in on.
Fight or flight...It picked fight.
my 308 had failed to extract.
Dad had one shot left and no ammo on him.
Yep , I ran like a scared schoolgirl.
Dad stood his ground and put that last 30/ 06 between its blinkers ...
Had the same experience all by myself , but with my 303 years later.
Between the blinkers went that shot (I had a mag that was near full though)
Thats self defence when hunting lol...
Once with Dad , lungshot moose we walked in on.
Fight or flight...It picked fight.
my 308 had failed to extract.
Dad had one shot left and no ammo on him.
Yep , I ran like a scared schoolgirl.
Dad stood his ground and put that last 30/ 06 between its blinkers ...
Had the same experience all by myself , but with my 303 years later.
Between the blinkers went that shot (I had a mag that was near full though)
Thats self defence when hunting lol...
The gun that will keep you out of trouble is whatever you have in your hand. The gun that will save your bacon is whatever your sidekick is carrying. Once you get hit yours is very unlikely to do you any good.
peter pepper
Member
- Location
- The Big Wet Island
Well, they (charging G bear) don't like it. They catch fire, run away and start small brush fires. Then you have to call in the fire to the authorities. And say you don't know what started the fire. Or so I assume, as this statement is purely speculative...
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
We've hit them with the small cracker shells fired from a scare pistol from time to time, and although it happens, we try to avoid hitting a bear with a 12 ga cracker. A rubber slug fired from a shotgun and applied to the butt end of a bear usually gets it moving along rather smartly, particularly when cracker shells are fired at the same time, but I haven't tried rubber buckshot or seen it used. I've never seen a rubber buckshot or slug cartridge for a scare pistol. For a 12 ga cracker shell to kill a bear, the range would have to be very close, but I have heard that its happened.
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If a hunter is out hunting, how is it any more fair if the hunter has a 2nd firearm for defense?
The Bears & wolves game needs to be evened up imo. Give them the 2nd firearm for self defence during hunting seasons.
Be proficient with what you shoot, trust it and trust yourself.
I support 2nd easy access firearms but only the smart choice.
call of duty 'fanboyz' need to leave their 3" 9 at home and smarten up.
There is nothing faster than using what's in your hands. So learn and trust your rifle first.
If you can carry slugs, do it. Not all situations have a charging bear that spooked from 10-20'. Better to have and not need.
We are a long way off from ATC so plan ahead.
The Bears & wolves game needs to be evened up imo. Give them the 2nd firearm for self defence during hunting seasons.
Be proficient with what you shoot, trust it and trust yourself.
I support 2nd easy access firearms but only the smart choice.
call of duty 'fanboyz' need to leave their 3" 9 at home and smarten up.
There is nothing faster than using what's in your hands. So learn and trust your rifle first.
If you can carry slugs, do it. Not all situations have a charging bear that spooked from 10-20'. Better to have and not need.
We are a long way off from ATC so plan ahead.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
With respect to Mr Kochanski's bear club and road flare advice, it strikes me as a bit unrealistic. He says with great pride that in 40 years of life in the bush, he's never carried a rifle. To me that smacks of an ideology rather than as evidence that an alternate choice to a firearm makes you any safer. That said, the individual who has never held a gun, can't be expected to defend himself with one; "You are no more armed by owning a gun than you are a musician by owning a piano." But more on that later. Then there's the good old you're more likely to die in a car wreck on a highway than you are in a bear attack. Well, that holds true only during the time that you are actually in the motor vehicle, once you're on foot in bear country, and the highway is out of sight, the percentages change.
There's a big difference between surviving a bear attack and walking away uninjured from a dangerous bear encounter, which would you prefer? A firearm is designed to stop a lethal threat from a distance, before it can hurt you, whereas if you are armed with only a club, then by definition, the threat is close enough to make contact. A road flare used as a weapon, in a stressful dangerous bear encounter, is a forest fire waiting to happen. Why would you put yourself in either of those situations? But should your personality, and physical prowess bring you to prefer a club to a gun, rather than something the size of the Roman Gladius, consider the advantage of a hardwood pick handle, or better yet a 6' staff, which can at least aid you in walking, and gives you greater separation from the threat, when its used as a thrusting weapon. The use of a club or staff in combat also requires a degree of knowledge, so if you happen to be an expert in Eastern martial arts which have a weapon component, you're possibly in good shape. But a very brave local fellow here, armed with a club of sorts, a snow shovel actually, attempted to stop a polar bear attack on a young woman, just a short distance from my house. He succeeded in drawing the bear away from it's victim, but the surgery he required, after being life flighted to Winnipeg, was less than enjoyable, so I don't recommend clubs as viable bear defense tools. The bear, a small one, was subsequently driven away with a truck and shot a short time later.
Machinery exists to make our lives more convenient and safer. Firearms are are a type of machinery which fill a particular niche, and require some esoteric knowledge to use effectively. A measure of competence can be realized in a short period of time, provided good instruction is received. Once you are confident and competent with a firearm, it provides a number of advantages over it's nonlethal alternatives, not the least of which is the confidence a firearm inspires, allowing you to make good panic free decisions. Secondly, it allows you to influence events from a distance, and this is the primary advantage that the firearm brings to the table. If you're alert to the bear's presence, the firearm effectively prevents him from being able to get close enough to touch you, and if he can't touch you, he can't hurt you.
The firearm remains useful for as long as your ammunition holds out, whereas pepper spray is depleted very rapidly, and then you are unarmed, while your threat is still in the immediate area. A shotgun can be used as a scare devise with the appropriate less lethal ammunition. Its been my experience that some bears don't respond in a positive fashion to live fire when its used in an attempt to drive them away, but they all respond in a positive manner to cracker shells and rubber bullets when fired from a shotgun, provided they have an avenue of escape. The transition from scare cartridge to lethal fire can be made rapidly with a bit of training and proper ammunition management. While I personally prefer a rifle, though not near populated areas, a rifle usually has no alternative to lethal fire, and if you're tempted to use rifle fire to scare the bear away, do so knowing that your magazine capacity is being depleted, and the result might not prove beneficial.
There's a big difference between surviving a bear attack and walking away uninjured from a dangerous bear encounter, which would you prefer? A firearm is designed to stop a lethal threat from a distance, before it can hurt you, whereas if you are armed with only a club, then by definition, the threat is close enough to make contact. A road flare used as a weapon, in a stressful dangerous bear encounter, is a forest fire waiting to happen. Why would you put yourself in either of those situations? But should your personality, and physical prowess bring you to prefer a club to a gun, rather than something the size of the Roman Gladius, consider the advantage of a hardwood pick handle, or better yet a 6' staff, which can at least aid you in walking, and gives you greater separation from the threat, when its used as a thrusting weapon. The use of a club or staff in combat also requires a degree of knowledge, so if you happen to be an expert in Eastern martial arts which have a weapon component, you're possibly in good shape. But a very brave local fellow here, armed with a club of sorts, a snow shovel actually, attempted to stop a polar bear attack on a young woman, just a short distance from my house. He succeeded in drawing the bear away from it's victim, but the surgery he required, after being life flighted to Winnipeg, was less than enjoyable, so I don't recommend clubs as viable bear defense tools. The bear, a small one, was subsequently driven away with a truck and shot a short time later.
Machinery exists to make our lives more convenient and safer. Firearms are are a type of machinery which fill a particular niche, and require some esoteric knowledge to use effectively. A measure of competence can be realized in a short period of time, provided good instruction is received. Once you are confident and competent with a firearm, it provides a number of advantages over it's nonlethal alternatives, not the least of which is the confidence a firearm inspires, allowing you to make good panic free decisions. Secondly, it allows you to influence events from a distance, and this is the primary advantage that the firearm brings to the table. If you're alert to the bear's presence, the firearm effectively prevents him from being able to get close enough to touch you, and if he can't touch you, he can't hurt you.
The firearm remains useful for as long as your ammunition holds out, whereas pepper spray is depleted very rapidly, and then you are unarmed, while your threat is still in the immediate area. A shotgun can be used as a scare devise with the appropriate less lethal ammunition. Its been my experience that some bears don't respond in a positive fashion to live fire when its used in an attempt to drive them away, but they all respond in a positive manner to cracker shells and rubber bullets when fired from a shotgun, provided they have an avenue of escape. The transition from scare cartridge to lethal fire can be made rapidly with a bit of training and proper ammunition management. While I personally prefer a rifle, though not near populated areas, a rifle usually has no alternative to lethal fire, and if you're tempted to use rifle fire to scare the bear away, do so knowing that your magazine capacity is being depleted, and the result might not prove beneficial.
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I actually agree with you Boomer, ( scary thought!) I just thought I'd throw that out there for general interest. I can't remember the details, but I recall a story about someone trying to beat off a bear attack with a canoe paddle with less than positive results. Unless there's an axe head attached to the end of the club, I doubt it would faze an adult bear, and even then it would be iffy, considering the bear isn't likely to be standing still.
There's a reality survival show called Alone, where the participants were given a can of bear spray and a flare for wildlife encounters. I wonder if that's where they got the idea from.
There's a reality survival show called Alone, where the participants were given a can of bear spray and a flare for wildlife encounters. I wonder if that's where they got the idea from.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I remember hearing the swat the bear across the ass with a canoe paddle advice when I was a kid, and at the time though it unlikely the procurer of said advice had actually tried it. Its right up there with all the other suggestions that have made their way through the backcountry over the years, like run down hill and the bear can't catch you, cut birdshot shells at the top of the brass to make field expedient slugs, shoot the bear in the face with birdshot to blind him, and all sorts of other nonsense.
Early to mid 90's a friend was working in a local sporting goods store, and a couple of young women came in to look at the handgun selection. They wanted one for self defense. They were told that you can't have a handgun for personal defense. It was explained why and the young women agreed to the reasoning. They continued to wander around the store looking at merchandise when they came upon the boat flare pistol section. You know, the small single shot orange guns...
It was explained this time that it was not illegal to carry one of these kinds of guns, and that they could buy as much ammo for it as they wanted.
They each bought one, with ammo.
The reason for wanting a gun was that they went bar hopping and wanted to be able to protect themselves from unwanted attention. I don't know about you guys, but I sure wouldn't want to get "lit up" with a flare gun no matter how close the hospital is.
My buddy never told me one way or the other if he heard of anybody getting shot in the bars in Winnipeg with a flare pistol.
It was explained this time that it was not illegal to carry one of these kinds of guns, and that they could buy as much ammo for it as they wanted.
They each bought one, with ammo.
The reason for wanting a gun was that they went bar hopping and wanted to be able to protect themselves from unwanted attention. I don't know about you guys, but I sure wouldn't want to get "lit up" with a flare gun no matter how close the hospital is.
My buddy never told me one way or the other if he heard of anybody getting shot in the bars in Winnipeg with a flare pistol.
Necro thread but was curious.
If bow hunting in ontario, the regs say you can not have a firearm as well. Here is from the regs:
Firearms
Big game, including deer, may only be hunted with a firearm (includes bows). When hunting deer, you may only use or carry a firearm of the type permitted for hunting deer at that time in that WMU. For example, when hunting deer during a bows-only season, you may only use and carry bow hunting equipment. Specifications on the firearms, bows, bolts and arrows that are permitted when hunting deer are found in the general regulations section.
My question would be, if you were allowed to carry an antique with you while out bow hunting. Since it is not a firearm (it is an antique) and is only considered a firearm when used in a careless fashion (ala section 86), then wouldnt that mean you can carry an antique with you while bowhunting?
If bow hunting in ontario, the regs say you can not have a firearm as well. Here is from the regs:
Firearms
Big game, including deer, may only be hunted with a firearm (includes bows). When hunting deer, you may only use or carry a firearm of the type permitted for hunting deer at that time in that WMU. For example, when hunting deer during a bows-only season, you may only use and carry bow hunting equipment. Specifications on the firearms, bows, bolts and arrows that are permitted when hunting deer are found in the general regulations section.
My question would be, if you were allowed to carry an antique with you while out bow hunting. Since it is not a firearm (it is an antique) and is only considered a firearm when used in a careless fashion (ala section 86), then wouldnt that mean you can carry an antique with you while bowhunting?
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That is incorrect.
You cannot use 2 firearms while hunting migratory birds and you cannot carry a gun while bowhunting in an archery only season but other that that you can carry/use as many as you want. For example, during muzzleloader deer season, you could have 3 MLs loaded and ready to go.
Alot of States in USA don't allow you to carry a handgun while Bowhunting....some do....but not all.
Can you please point out the section it says that? Im on the ontario.ca website with the fwac regs up and typed "antique" in find in page and nothing came up.
Are you refering to this?
Interpretation – loaded firearm
(7) For the purposes of this Act, a firearm is loaded if,
(a) in the case of a firearm that uses shells or cartridges, there is an unfired shell or cartridge in the chamber or in a magazine attached to the firearm;
(b) in the case of a percussion muzzle-loading gun, there is a charge of powder and a projectile in the barrel and a percussion cap on the nipple;
(b.1) in the case of an electronic ignition muzzle-loading gun, there is a charge of powder and a projectile in the barrel and a battery connected to the primer or charge;
(c) in the case of a muzzle-loading gun to which clauses (b) and (b.1) do not apply, there is a charge of powder and a projectile in the barrel and the vent is unplugged;
(d) in the case of a gun to which clauses (a), (b), (b.1) and (c) do not apply, there is a projectile in the gun or in a magazine attached to the gun;
The act also has this in the interpretations
“firearm” includes an air gun, pellet gun, bow or crossbow;
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Glad that both you and your Dad weren't hurt. If you don't mind me asking, what .308 rifle failed to extract it's spent casing?
how about a 10 with +P ammo?
Either way, even if you have a wilderness ATC and shoot a charging bear, there will be an investigation for shooting said bear out of season/without a tag and with your sidearm. It's better than being dead, but likely a legal battle after the fact
It is the same as an air gun or pellet gun....still considered a firearm under the FWCA. The CC/FA definition does not matter.
