Semi-Auto vs. Bolt Accuracy

If I was getting a "trainer" specifically for LR shooting I'd want one with a decent amount of drop and wind-drift. Otherwise what is the point? Shoot at 50m to work on the pure "shooting" part, then you can shoot at 100m and actually have enough drift and drop to work on the hard part of LR shooting: wind and ranging.

Take a look at the trainers guys have on snipercentral, 99% .22LR

CZ makes a good one right out of the box.

-Grant
 
A 22 lr bolt action would be the best choice . If you want an inexpensive trainer for long range shooting
practice , a 22lr would give you similar 100-200m ballistics compared with a 308 at 600 to 800m . It would
also be relative to a 308 in wind drift , the most important thing to learn shooting long range . I have 17 HMR
and many 22 lrs . The 17 HMR is too expensive to practice shoot and it's 17gr. bullets get blown around
more . I like my 17 HMR , it is fun to shoot . My 22 lrs are my practice rifles though . The Ruger 1022 is also
fun to shoot , but expensive to modify to shoot accurately for target work . I have two 1022's all tricked out
but they only shoot about the same as my CZ's or Savage MK II's ,at twice the price . Cooper , Anschutz and
other target rifles shoot better but cost too much for practice . I have seen many left hand CZ's on Canadian sites .

Good luck .
 
ok i have taken everything to heart. and the overwhelming majority of people are suggesting 22 LR. this is what i am thinking for a startup kit of sorts:
https://www.cabelas.ca/wishlist/933f0fbc-5f6c-40f3-9fe6-597dcdfc9f09 (links to my wishlist to keep track of everything and is a couple of pages long)

strangley enough, they have the .17 gun in LH but dont have the .22 in LH available on their site

i was probably just going to grab a LOT of different types of ammo to start off with to find out what it likes to shoot the best.
 
Good choice in guns for the original long range practice idea . I had one but I didn't like the
thumb hole stock . Just me , they look cool but I can't get used to them on the bench .Can
you get a lefty ? Bipods work well in the field , but bags and a rest are better off a bench .
Remember to use good ammo for target shooting , CCI Standard Velocity is a good start ,
SK better , Eley ,RWS , or Lapua the best . All subsonic and 40 gr.. Every gun has its own
preference .

Good luck with your shooting .
 
i went with the bipod because a farmer right down the road from me has given me permission to shoot on his land. i want to keep down on the weight of the additional equipment since i am already planning on bringing a small folding table with me as well as my targets. also, with the bipod i can get some experience on the ground too.

thanks a lot for the amo recommendations. so you wouldnt even bother testing out winchester, remington, federal, etc. just for the hell of it as well? i guess i will pick up a brick of CCI standard to plink with break in and then find what work s best for paper punching.

edit
yes, it is available in left under the model BTVLSS. i just wish i could find a stainless barrel/action with a standard stock in left so i could save $200 for the gun and then just upgrade to a boyds for $100, saving me $100 in total.
 
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ZCFPcbP.jpg


Semi auto 22WMR at 100 off a Bi-Pod.

Not to shabby, 9 round Mag. 19" Barrel.
 
Margucci said:
i went with the bipod because a farmer right down the road from me has given me permission to shoot on his land. i want to keep down on the weight of the additional equipment since i am already planning on bringing a small folding table with me as well as my targets. also, with the bipod i can get some experience on the ground too.

thanks a lot for the amo recommendations. so you wouldnt even bother testing out winchester, remington, federal, etc. just for the hell of it as well? i guess i will pick up a brick of CCI standard to plink with break in and then find what work s best for paper punching.

edit
yes, it is available in left under the model BTVLSS. i just wish i could find a stainless barrel/action with a standard stock in left so i could save $200 for the gun and then just upgrade to a boyds for $100, saving me $100 in total.
Click to expand...

The Savage BV shoots very well at the benchrest competitions I go to , and are much less expensive . I don't think a stainless
is available though .
I have tried most kinds of available long rifle ammo . Sad to say our North American ammo is not that great . CCI SV works the
best of NA stuff .I have had luck with Winchester Subsonic TC and Power Point ( high velocity ) . Remington Subsonic shoots
OK in only a few of my guns . Winchester Dyna Points used to be my hunting choice , but since they have value packed it
in 500 boxes it hasn't shot as well as the previous two I mentioned . I have some Velocitors for hunting but they are hyper
sonic and don't group as well as sub sonics at long range , and are noisy . Federal has great target ammo , but I have never
seen anything better than Gold Metal and it sucks , lots of dnfs .
The best target ammo deal is RWS Championship Edition , very consistent for the price .

If you can test shoot a CZ and a Savage Mark II and see which one feels the best to you . I am a member of a Gun Club
that makes testing a lot easier .

Good luck . If you need other info , from an old guy , feel free to send me a personal message .
 
I would challenge the assertions made above the bolt actions are "always" more accurate than semi's... That is simply NOT true... The bolt action system is inherently more rigid and repeatable, but inspite of this I have seen some amazingly accurate semi's "right out of the box." I also challenge the assertion that a 10/22 requires a thousand dollars of aftermarket work to make it shoot accurately... I have tuned dozens of 10/22's and 10/22 platform guns for a total cost of .25 cents to $2.50 per gun. Many 10/22's require nothing more than loosing the barrel band and having a bedded pressure pad added (5 cents of hockey tape will do it), other may require pillar bedding ($1.25 brass bushings)... That and finding the right ammo (which is a must for every LR rifle regardless of action type). 10/22's do NOT "NEED" the aftermarket parts, they just kinda draw you in, and you can't seem to stop adding to the project. Having said that, I reaffirm my belief that if I were only allowed one rimfire gun it would be a solid .22 LR bolt action rifle.
 
hoytcanon said:
I would challenge the assertions made above the bolt actions are "always" more accurate than semi's... That is simply NOT true... The bolt action system is inherently more rigid and repeatable, but inspite of this I have seen some amazingly accurate semi's "right out of the box." I also challenge the assertion that a 10/22 requires a thousand dollars of aftermarket work to make it shoot accurately... I have tuned dozens of 10/22's and 10/22 platform guns for a total cost of .25 cents to $2.50 per gun. Many 10/22's require nothing more than loosing the barrel band and having a bedded pressure pad added (5 cents of hockey tape will do it), other may require pillar bedding ($1.25 brass bushings)... That and finding the right ammo (which is a must for every LR rifle regardless of action type). 10/22's do NOT "NEED" the aftermarket parts, they just kinda draw you in, and you can't seem to stop adding to the project. Having said that, I reaffirm my belief that if I were only allowed one rimfire gun it would be a solid .22 LR bolt action rifle.
Click to expand...

I sure didn't say that bolt actions are " always " more accurate than semi's . I had a TC Benchmark that was very accurate but had issues with almost
all brands of ammo . I have never been lucky enough to get a Ruger that just needed a change in pressure point , floating or re-crowning , to be as
accurate as my Savage Mark II's or CZ's . I have had 5 Ruger 1022's and they all ended up costing me more to shoot as accurately as my bolt actions .
I do find 1022's more fun to shoot though . Last year benchrest shooting in the US , my friend's "Ruger 1022" with a barrel change , trigger job and
Boyds stock change , consistently shot a bit better than my CZ 452 Varmint . Good shooting everyone .
 
i have a question not really related to the thread but since you guys have been so great... i am going to put a full rail to mount my optics on. my question is would you bother with any type of rail MOA compensation on a .22? with a slow bullet according to the ballistics charts i would have about an approx. 45" drop at 200 yards (about 22.5 MOA) with a 50 yard zero which most decent scopes can compensate for easily.
 
Grantmac said:
If I was getting a "trainer" specifically for LR shooting I'd want one with a decent amount of drop and wind-drift. Otherwise what is the point? Shoot at 50m to work on the pure "shooting" part, then you can shoot at 100m and actually have enough drift and drop to work on the hard part of LR shooting: wind and ranging.

Take a look at the trainers guys have on snipercentral, 99% .22LR

CZ makes a good one right out of the box.

-Grant
Click to expand...

Can't argue with this.. good post
 
Margucci said:
i have a question not really related to the thread but since you guys have been so great... i am going to put a full rail to mount my optics on. my question is would you bother with any type of rail MOA compensation on a .22? with a slow bullet according to the ballistics charts i would have about an approx. 45" drop at 200 yards (about 22.5 MOA) with a 50 yard zero which most decent scopes can compensate for easily.
Click to expand...

Definitely worth it. I run Burris Signature Zee rings with offset inserts giving me around 25MOA of compensation. I can easily shoot 250yds without running out of scope elevation.

-Grant
 
nikon said:
I sure didn't say that bolt actions are " always " more accurate than semi's . I had a TC Benchmark that was very accurate but had issues with almost
all brands of ammo . I have never been lucky enough to get a Ruger that just needed a change in pressure point , floating or re-crowning , to be as
accurate as my Savage Mark II's or CZ's . I have had 5 Ruger 1022's and they all ended up costing me more to shoot as accurately as my bolt actions .
I do find 1022's more fun to shoot though . Last year benchrest shooting in the US , my friend's "Ruger 1022" with a barrel change , trigger job and
Boyds stock change , consistently shot a bit better than my CZ 452 Varmint . Good shooting everyone .
Click to expand...

If you read through the thread, I think that you will see that I was not referring to you.
 
Margucci said:
i have a question not really related to the thread but since you guys have been so great... i am going to put a full rail to mount my optics on. my question is would you bother with any type of rail MOA compensation on a .22? with a slow bullet according to the ballistics charts i would have about an approx. 45" drop at 200 yards (about 22.5 MOA) with a 50 yard zero which most decent scopes can compensate for easily.
Click to expand...

I have 20-30 MOA scope rails on all my long range target guns . Some scopes have enough adjustment in
elevation and don't need the MOA rails , but they are usually expensive . I also like mil dot scopes for long
range . I can sight in at closer ranges in the upper range of the mildots and hold over at longer ranges in
the lower range of mildots . This way I don't have to use my turrets every time I want to shoot at different
distances , and can correct easily for wind also . Burris signature rings have inserts that can also give MOA
correction . Long range shooting is challenging . Learning your ballistics and wind adjustments make you a
much better shooter .
 
I would say it depends on a few things. 1 whats the barrel length. 2 how much gas is lost to cycle the bolt ie how much energy is lost. Other then then loseing velocity out of the same barrel length that's really the only difference. A high end semi auto can beat a low end bolt action and they can tie each other as well.
 
nikon said:
I have 20-30 MOA scope rails on all my long range target guns . Some scopes have enough adjustment in
elevation and don't need the MOA rails , but they are usually expensive . I also like mil dot scopes for long
range . I can sight in at closer ranges in the upper range of the mildots and hold over at longer ranges in
the lower range of mildots . This way I don't have to use my turrets every time I want to shoot at different
distances , and can correct easily for wind also . Burris signature rings have inserts that can also give MOA
correction . Long range shooting is challenging . Learning your ballistics and wind adjustments make you a
much better shooter .
Click to expand...

yea i havent even started on the scope fiasco yet. i think im going to go to bass pro or sail to try out different magnifications. i dont know what i want for my max: 9,12,14 or even higher (although i doubt it). and yes, i do want mil dot but if all else fails maybe go with MOA. HOWEVER, for training for long range (where i would really need mil dot) i should really just go with the same. i really dont want to spend as much on the scope as the gun ($400-500) but i am prepared to if necessary. also, first focal plane is a must.
 
Margucci said:
yea i havent even started on the scope fiasco yet. i think im going to go to bass pro or sail to try out different magnifications. i dont know what i want for my max: 9,12,14 or even higher (although i doubt it). and yes, i do want mil dot but if all else fails maybe go with MOA. HOWEVER, for training for long range (where i would really need mil dot) i should really just go with the same. i really dont want to spend as much on the scope as the gun ($400-500) but i am prepared to if necessary. also, first focal plane is a must.
Click to expand...

When I shoot serious target I use Weaver T24 and T36's . They are hard to get and about $500 .
When I am out practicing and having fun I use Mueller mildot scopes , about $200 . I don't have
the funds to buy top line optics , but I wish I did . Scopes in the thousand dollar range and above
just aren't in my budget right now .
I like my Mueller Tactical 4-14 and 6-25 mildot and 8-32 target dot scopes . They have good optics
but the turrets are mushy . They have served me well .
Tasco makes an inexpensive 6-24 AO mildot . Not the greatest optics but I still own mine , on my
17 HMR . I have a Hawke and BSA 6-24 also that are on rimfire fun guns , both budget optics .

I always come back to my Weavers for serious benchrest shooting .

Whatever you end up buying , be sure it has an adjustable objective (AO) , if you plan on using it
for targets at different ranges , especially close ones ie. 25 or 50m .
 
Margucci said:
I am looking to get into 22 precision shooting as a stepping stone for long range target shooting. First and foremost i am left handed. not really an issue for me with semi-auto but for bolt action it is a pain. I really like the 10/22 for the upgrades available, and from what i have heard decent accuracy. my main questions are:
1) is there are remarkable difference in accuracy between semi-auto and bolt over distances of 50-100m and then 100m-200m?

if it isn't too bad I will almost certainly go with a 10/22 even for the semi-auto fun factor with a larger mag having some outdoor plinking fun. otherwise:
2) in your opinion, what is the best bolt action 22 keeping in mind upgradeability and accuracy?
3) same question as above but with a left hand shooting rifle?

if i do end up going with bolt action and the overall best model isn't available in southpaw then i CAN use a right handed bolt... little bit more shuffling but i can make it work i guess.

thanks so much for your time and opinions.
regards
Click to expand...

sorry I'm late to the discussion...
I guess it depends on what you're calling long range target shooting. If you're into fullbore prone rifle target shooting, "close" range is 300, 400, and 500 yards or metres. "long" is 800 and 900 y or m, or 1000 m. 600 is sort of in the middle.
If you're going to simulate that sort of practice, shooting prone, off your elbows, with a sling, get an old Martini-action BSA free-rifle and shoot .22 shorts at 100 yards/metres. You get to practice dealing with wind (you'll need some flags between you and the target), and correcting your vernier-scale iron sights (aperture front and rear) between shots to keep your group central. If you're able to get 20 shots at 100 yards into the two-minute-of angle "bull" you're going VERY well.
Then you can get a .308 single-shot bolt-action (musgrave, angel, sportco, or many other actions) and shoot for score out to 1000 yards/900 m.
If you're thinking target shooting with a scope, that's an entirely different animal, but trigger control, breathing, and a 'true' firearm are necessary. There's "F-class" where you can shoot a scoped rifle and you're not restricted to .308 win / 556/.223 for the shooting (military calibres), and you can also use a rest instead of shooting off your elbows. Bench Rest target shooting and shooting for group (not for score) are different...
 
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