Semi automatic M53 (or mg42) build *high res warning*

[Michael J]

Note: This will simply document my build, and will assist you in your own builds. By no means is my method "approved" here in Canada by the RCMP. I am hoping as it is the same method used to build those m53's and mg42's sold at retail in the US, that the conversion will be acceptable here. But i am risking my own investment to hopefully open some doors for others of you interested. I shall post of its approval or disapproval after i have built it and have had it verified.

I am protesting the gunsmithing forum right now, so i will place this thread here. The ppsh41 build post was made here anyways, so i should not be infringing upon any forum rules.

Building a semi automatic mg42 or m53 sarac that fires from a closed bolt:

RCMP approval sort of, as i asked him the legal process in which one would make a semi auto mg42:

Mike

The process goes something like this:

Build a new receiver, incapable of containing original auto parts, ensuring that the firearm will fire in the semi-auto mode only, keeping the barrel longer than 470mm if a centre-fire,

Make an application to register the firearm, you will not have a Firearms Reference Table number, or verifier number, but make the application anyways by submitting a CAFC 998 located here: http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/form-formulaire/indiv_forms/998_e.asp

The firearm will be inspected by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to determine it is a semi-auto only, and if it meets their satisfaction, we will issue a registration certificate.

Hope this answers your question.

Regards,

George

George Fraser SSM, C.D.
Canadian Firearms Program / Programme canadienne des armes à feu
Royal Canadian Mounted Police / Gendarmerie royale du Canada
Ottawa, Canada K1A 0R2
george.fraser@cfc-cafc.gc.ca
1 800 731-4000 ext 2073
613-949-6514 | Facsimile / Télécopieur 613-993-5548

I am not complete on my own build, therefore i will not be able to provide a complete tutorial (until hopefully may-june), however i will start things off with a "what you will need from marstar" picture and mostly complete list (i may add to it in case i forget anything).

Depending on your source for parts, .308 and 8mm are NOT INTERCHANGEABLE for use . Just had to make that very clear sorry for caps.

List of parts from marstar http://www.marstar.ca/mg42m53p.htm:
M42-001 lock catch pin
M42-002 lock catch
M42-003 lock catch
M42-005 Complete rear sight (not necessary to shoot, but i like to aim )
M42-008 Barrel stop
M42-009 Barrel door
M42-010 Cam
M42-011 Dust cover
M42-012 " " spring
M42-013 " " pin
M42-014 Left Rail (rails are riveted it, i'll have to find rivet size later)
M42-015 Right Rail
M42-016 plate lock spring
M42-017 plate lock
M42-018 plate lock pin
M42-010 Cam
M42-047 Grip housing (You do not need any of the trigger parts)
M42-048 Left grip plate
M42-049 Grip screw (you'll need 2)
M42-055 Right grip
M42-056 Grip nut (you'll need 2)
M42-057 Split pin Female (needed to mount grip to gun)
M42-058 Split pin Male
M42-069 Bipod (not needed if you are buying a tripod)
M42-071 Recoil Spring
M42-072 8mm Barrel
M42-073 Cover hinge pin (fits into cam)
M42-074 Complete Bolt assembly
M42-077 Butt + Buffer assembly
M42-078 Charging handle assembly
M42-079 Complete top cover assembly
M42-080 Feed tray
M42-082 Barrel guide bearing sleeve
M42-083 Booster + Cone

(My internet connection right now is sucking, i cannot access the pictures, and marstar has taken it upon themselves to name all their parts differently from everybody else . So once i get my connection fixed, i will browse through the pictures and find the Recuperator, and grip to receiver attaching thingy lol). Also you will need the front sight assembly, but i cannot access the picture to identify the individual parts.

Edit: "Buy Canadian", i have all the means to replicate such barrel bushing, i might give it a go.

Other parts you will need to complete a receiver blank will be buffer cams, and Buffer latch stud. These are not available via marstar, they however can be made without too much effort.
Buffer cams

buffer latch stud (sorry it's blurry)

I will post my success or failure to acquire receiver stampings (bought, or made).

Edit: I will also replicate these modification parts, maybe keep a small batch available. Parts include the bolt modifications, and grip modifications. You can use various trigger groups such as from the ar-15, FAL, etc. Your "box" on the grip must be drilled and constructed specifically for whatever trigger group you utilize though.
Use projectguns.com as a reference to parts required.

Aside from that, tooling required to complete this build:
- TIG Welding unit (MIG will do, but TIG is preferred)
- Ball peen hammer (or whatever device you wish to use for rivets)
- Milling machine or Dremel with a steady hand
- Drill press or handheld drill or dremel with a drill bit on it


Okay, i have the parts, now what do i do with them?
1) Modify your Grip, using tutorial i'll provide
2) Modify your Bolt, again with tutorial i'll provide
3) Build your receiver from stampings (?) There is no tutorial for this, i will provide one
4) Install a stud into rear receiver half to ensure original bolt cannot be installed
5) Extend grip slot so that original grip will not attach

Once i get some funds for the receiver stampings ($800 or so) AND the approval i require to import, i will commence the receiver tutorial. I would expect the bolt and grip tutorial first, as they are cheaper and easier .

I have dealt with all the legalities through numerous contact with the RCMP, so this is NOT a thread to discuss them. Please keep it clean, as i will be adding the tutorial to it. Feel free to post questions, or things of that sort though .

Note *edited*: You cannot export any machine gun parts from the USA. I am not sure how marstar conducts the sales of their individual mg42 parts, you should inquire your questions with John, or other employees of marstar.

This build is expensive as heck. But just who will you buy a semi auto mg42 from here? No one.

SA mg42's in the US sell for about $5-8000 for an authentic german ww2 kit. Do not mistake them for their cheaper counterpart the M53 sarac.
Century Arms *edit* have made semi automatic m53's. The quality apparently is very low, that is why John has never imported them, as they have been said to be dangerous (?) . Anyways, they aren't the best, but they still go for about $3-4000, which serves as a good reference value anyways.


Anyways, i will update as i go .
-Michael J

 

[H Wally]

Sweeeeeeeeet.

 

[NavyShooter]

(Aside from FAL or Ar-15 trigger assembly, the other parts are not officially "gun parts" as deemed by the US for exporting, but he will refuse to ship anyways. Just get a friend or family member to ship these, or once i receive mine i will take detailed pics in case any of you wish to fabricate your own)

MJ,

This little bit above here seems to be counselling people to order stuff from the US and not following the correct import procedures....can you please clarify EXACTLY what you mean by this?

NS

 

[Kevin M.]

Cool.

 

[Lee Enfield]

I believe that if you utilize the front ventilated barrel jacket your gun will be classed as a converted auto.

This is because it was a non-removable part of the original receiver; which was the problem with the referred to PPsH41 build.

 

[Skippy]

MJ,

This little bit above here seems to be counselling people to order stuff from the US and not following the correct import procedures....can you please clarify EXACTLY what you mean by this?

NS

I think all he's saying is that some US exporters aren't intimately familiar with some export regulations, so they automatically get nervous at the prospect of exporting perfectly legal parts just because they don't know for sure that it's legal (even if it is), and would rather just refuse to deal with Canadians than take the time to confirm the legality.

He isn't advising illegal activity, he's only saying that a way around the naivete of those exporters is to have them ship to a US friend who knows the export laws, and isn't afraid to ship perfectly legal parts to Canada.

I find a lot of US sellers are like that. It's just easier for them to deal within their own country, than to bother reading up on all the export restrictions. A lot of sellers will just refuse to ship ANYTHING to Canada, as a way of covering their asses against any possibly slip up.

 

[tiriaq]

Of course, it entirely depends on whether the US State Dept. considers the bits to be gun parts or not.
The trigger box mentionned is a set of precision cut pieces that snap together, prior to welding. The resulting box is sized to accept either AR or FN-FAL trigger parts. The box is fitted and welded to the original grip frame.
I have heard that forged blanks, zero machining performed, for AR uppers and lowers are controlled for export. I do not know if this is fact. As far as the pressings required for fabrication of the receiver are concerned, it would be worth a query to the US DoS if an 80% receiver is considered to be a gun part under ITAR.
There are FFL classified receivers for sale in the US. Whether US DOS would approve export is an open question. And for such a receiver to be imported, it would have to clear DFAIT, CBSA and the CFC, being registered at the time of importation.

 

[MarkdevCanada]

I bought a trigger housing (for AR-15 parts) on a group buy several years ago, thinking I'd find a M53 parts set. Anyone know where to find a M53 parts set (hopefully cheap)?

 

[NavyShooter]

Skippy,

I just wanted to be clear on what HIS intent was with that statement.

Commencing a publicly displayed build such as this with the suggestion of improperly importing items ain't such a good start.

NS

I think all he's saying is that some US exporters aren't intimately familiar with some export regulations, so they automatically get nervous at the prospect of exporting perfectly legal parts just because they don't know for sure that it's legal (even if it is), and would rather just refuse to deal with Canadians than take the time to confirm the legality.

He isn't advising illegal activity, he's only saying that a way around the naivete of those exporters is to have them ship to a US friend who knows the export laws, and isn't afraid to ship perfectly legal parts to Canada.

I find a lot of US sellers are like that. It's just easier for them to deal within their own country, than to bother reading up on all the export restrictions. A lot of sellers will just refuse to ship ANYTHING to Canada, as a way of covering their asses against any possibly slip up.

 

[Michael J]

MJ,

This little bit above here seems to be counselling people to order stuff from the US and not following the correct import procedures....can you please clarify EXACTLY what you mean by this?

NS

Sorry, what i mean is, i have spoke with this kind fellow on the phone. His parts are legal to export, but he does not like the idea of exporting his goods. He does not want to risk his "manufacturing license", while legally he is not at risk, he is paranoid with the whole obama administration, as are many dealers in the US. As i have stated, APEX does carry parts which they have previously exported to canada, but have changed their policies after the election (go figure ).

I will state this again in case of any confusion. MG parts are not available for export from the US, while however the conversion parts are. I do not know the regulations on buying a semi-automatic fire control group and having it exported either, but that does seem more legal. You can buy ar-15 trigger sets here anyways, the fellow in the link does provide an ar-15 box also.

My build tutorial will cover you legally from the point you acquire your parts in canada, to the point of finish before you are inspected by the rcmp.

I have no legal advice to provide on however you acquire your parts, but i can point you in the direction of marstar . If it is legal, you may be able to import parts from other countries, again i do not know the details of this either.


edit:

I believe that if you utilize the front ventilated barrel jacket your gun will be classed as a converted auto.

This is because it was a non-removable part of the original receiver; which was the problem with the referred to PPsH41 build.

Correct sir, i am using the front barrel jacket, and am mating it to a nice rear to produce a deactivated receiver. I have contacted the rcmp, they gave me the "okay", once i am finished, i will have it approved as successfully deactivated, and probably sell it to fund my newly manufactured receiver.

@ Tiriaq, yeah i haven't worked out all the bugs on what to do about a receiver. I will inquire about a 4 piece set of stampings with the rcmp, get their advice, and the BATF have them regulated as non-receivers so that should be in my favor, but i will have to make further inquiries. I'll deal with all that once i have furthered in my build and am at the point in which i will need them.

edit again: i was bored, sent in an email regarding the stampings i wish to purchase and import to my RCMP contact i have been using regarding this build. Will see what he says and i shall post it here.

I will inquire about the american side of the export regs another day.

 

[NavyShooter]

Thank-you for the clarification.

NS

 

[johnone]

NAVY SHOOTER;
"This little bit above here seems to be counselling people to order stuff from the US and not following the correct import procedures....can you please clarify EXACTLY what you mean by this?"
NOW you can understand why we don't sell kits in Canada.... It is simply bad press for all of us.
Regards
John

"

 

[NavyShooter]

Johnone,

I understand fully....and don't blame ya.

In other news, I'm closing in on 3.5 years to potential retirement....any interest in opening a Halifax area office?

NS

 

[Michael J]

NAVY SHOOTER;
"This little bit above here seems to be counselling people to order stuff from the US and not following the correct import procedures....can you please clarify EXACTLY what you mean by this?"
NOW you can understand why we don't sell kits in Canada.... It is simply bad press for all of us.
Regards
John

"

Based on your comment about assembling your 1919a4s and m2's with a jig, i am guessing TNW sends you the semi parts, and they are assembled at a shop here in canada?

TNW has this "hobby set" thing they offer, supplying those who wish to and are capable, the parts necessary to build an M2/3.
http://www.tnwfirearms.com/guns_m2_m3_hobbyist.shtml

Would it be possible for Marstar to offer a similar kit, all the parts necessary to build a semi automatic 1919a4 or m2/3 minus the costs of assembly labor, for those of us who want to try building our own? That solves the issue of people trying to import US parts illegally, and would not result in bad press (?).

Americans have been building both the 1919a4 and m2/m3 for years without extensive equipment, us canadians i would not see being incapable of it?


My only concern is, are the right side plates considered the receiver here in canada, as they are in the US? If they are, these build kits would be considered a firearm then? Would that mean that after final assembly, they fit under the TNW 1919a4 / m2 or m3 FRT, and would not require inspection?

I personally would be interested in such a kit, not so much as to save a couple hundred of dollars, but for the experience of having assembled it myself.

 

[contact148]

Ive read thru the 1919a4.com builds and it seems it would not be too hard to have a steel shop make the 80% RSP use a thicker then orig plate (so FA parts dont fit) and each end user could drill/mill the plate to 100% you would need the rivits (not sure where to get those)



biggest problem would be the parts kits...... no source here in canada

 

[Michael J]

Ive read thru the 1919a4.com builds and it seems it would not be too hard to have a steel shop make the 80% RSP use a thicker then orig plate (so FA parts dont fit) and each end user could drill/mill the plate to 100% you would need the rivits (not sure where to get those)



biggest problem would be the parts kits...... no source here in canada

From what i've read, any steel rivets can be used, as you would be beveling the plate to whatever degree rivets you use.

I doubt the rivet sets available in the US could hardly be considered firearm parts, they are just steel rivets you buy from a hardware store, except the seller has picked out the correct sizes for you, rather than you having to buy a several packs of rivets when you only need a few of each size.

From what i gather (maybe i misinterpreted what was said, if so just let me know) marstar is sold the complete semi kits from tnw to be assembled, all 191a4 / m2 parts included. Now all that has to be done, would be to sell the kits as firearms because the receiver is 100%, and and let the buyer assemble it himself (Would still like to know the legalities of that though, as asked in my other post).

 

[tiriaq]

If a finished TNW "receiver" were used, the firearm would be a TNW.
If one were machined from scratch as a "one-off", it would obviously not be a TNW, and the TNW FRT number would not be applicable. If the firearm were mechanically like the approved TNW, registration and the creation of a FRT number should be possible.

 

[NavyShooter]

MJ,

One thing to note, the last person who tried going "his own way" and didn't listen well to the folks here who provided some "suggestions"...well, his guns that he manufactured have been grabbed as prohib Converted Autos.

NS

 

[Ljungman]

apexgunparts dot com says on the home page that they do not accept international orders. Did this always say this? Did you email and ask for them to ship to canada?

They have some good prices on things I want

 

[Michael J]

apexgunparts dot com says on the home page that they do not accept international orders. Did this always say this? Did you email and ask for them to ship to canada?

They have some good prices on things I want

That policy was post-obama administration. Before they had a $ limit for canadian orders, i think it was 200 or something. The point is, their decision was not based on law, but paranoia, and they should still be exportable. Unless one of the new bills in the last month that have been passed would not allow this?
I ordered i think it was mid december, i think a week before obama officially took office, they stopped international orders. Go figure eh...

MJ,

One thing to note, the last person who tried going "his own way" and didn't listen well to the folks here who provided some "suggestions"...well, his guns that he manufactured have been grabbed as prohib Converted Autos.

NS

NavyShooter, I have re-edited my first post to forewarn that my build is not yet approved, and its designation is still up in the air. In bold too, at the very top, so that every reader understands those risks. That is the best i can do for now.

I am meeting all the requirements as to not be a CA, and hopefully be non-r, But the only thing i am afraid that will get me is the para-military look it has. That is however uncontrollable by me, and cannot be prevented.