Sempert and Krieghoff sxs 12 gauge

Newby

Newby

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I picked up a 1926 SEMPERT & KRIEGHOFF SXS 12 Gauge. I am having a hard time identifying it although I suspect it might be a TIFLIS. The rib has been soldered (repaired), the repair is a mess so it will need to be cleaned up.

Are there any experts on here I could email pictures to? So far I am getting very little information on it. I found a drawing that matches (and order sheet) but I am unable to find a actual photograph of a similar shotgun.

Thanks!

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Unfortunately I am of no help to you. Have you thought of joining a Krieghoff owners group on facebook? In past experience when I've had a hard time identifying, some of those brand specific group members were extraordinarily helpful in giving me the knowledge I was seeking.

Good luck in your search. And congratulations on your find!
 
What is you specifically you want to know? You have a well made, higher quality German side lock shotgun from the 1920’s. Largely hand fitted. No parts will be available from anyone. Anything that is broken or needs repair will have to be crafted by a gunsmith who specializes in vintage SxS shotguns, of which there are few in Canada. If you give it to someone else, they will likely continue the buggering of the gun. If you need some advice as to who may be qualified, ask here.

If you want to learn more, you have three reasonable options. Post better pics of the gun here, including all the proof marks and ask your specific questions. Go to the Doublegun forums and post the pics and ask your questions there. Or go to the German Gun Collectors Association and do the same there. I would go the Double Gun forum route. More highly knowledgeable vintage SxS people there than anywhere else in the world.

A FB page of Kreighoff owners will likely be of little value as they will mostly be concerned with modern Kreighhoff O/U competition guns.
 
canvasback said:
What is you specifically you want to know? You have a well made, higher quality German side lock shotgun from the 1920’s. Largely hand fitted. No parts will be available from anyone. Anything that is broken or needs repair will have to be crafted by a gunsmith who specializes in vintage SxS shotguns, of which there are few in Canada. If you give it to someone else, they will likely continue the buggering of the gun. If you need some advice as to who may be qualified, ask here.

If you want to learn more, you have three reasonable options. Post better pics of the gun here, including all the proof marks and ask your specific questions. Go to the Doublegun forums and post the pics and ask your questions there. Or go to the German Gun Collectors Association and do the same there. I would go the Double Gun forum route. More highly knowledgeable vintage SxS people there than anywhere else in the world.

A FB page of Kreighoff owners will likely be of little value as they will mostly be concerned with modern Kreighhoff O/U competition guns.
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100%

I have learned most of what you have said. I thought one of my gunsmiths would repair the ribs but no go, almost no gunsmith in Canada re ribs barrels. I did confirm it is a rare optioned Tiflis. This project is over my head, I'll flip it, take a loss and move on. Hopefully it can find a good home as its a piece of art. It will probably end up in the US as the cost of a restoration is 1/4 of what it costs here!
 
Newby said:
100%

I have learned most of what you have said. I thought one of my gunsmiths would repair the ribs but no go, almost no gunsmith in Canada re ribs barrels. I did confirm it is a rare optioned Tiflis. This project is over my head, I'll flip it, take a loss and move on. Hopefully it can find a good home as its a piece of art. It will probably end up in the US as the cost of a restoration is 1/4 of what it costs here!
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Not so.
 
As gunaholic noted, the last comment by Newby is profoundly incorrect. There are not a lot but we have some excellent craftsman at work in Canada who are fully capable of restoring a gun like this at a very competitive price. And I can tell you from personal experience, their prices are MORE than competitive with equal quality work done in the US.

One quick example. Oskar Kob who does Colour Case Hardening. He does work for, among other people, Martin Hagn. Hagn is one of the premiere rifle builders in the world. The designer of the Hagn action. When Heym wanted a new action designed for a double rifle, they had Hagn do it. Martin Hagn, earlier in his career, worked with the likes of Hartman and Weiss as well as with Peter Nelson. Probably the two finest gunmakers of the last 70 years. Their guns sell in the $175,000 to $250,000 USD range. And Oskar Kob’s CCH is good enough for Martin Hagn. At a price that is less than ANYTHING i have seen in the US.

One just needs to learn who the good people are and to be able to recognize what good work is.
 
Yes, there are a few gunsmiths in Canada that can relay your ribs. Properly done, the existing ribs ( both) need to be removed, all solder removed from barrels and ribs, barrels and ribs completely cleaned and polished, barrels and ribs tinned, between barrel spacers installed, all parts correctly soldered together leaving no voids or blushes ( excess solder), complete detailed cleanup, probably rebluing. I may have missed a step ot two. Bear in mind, this needs to be done so that both barrels shoot to the same point of impact, on target when done. This work, by the finest craftsmen is not cheap by any means but this gun might be worth the cost to you.
 
canvasback said:
For anyone interested, a photo sequence detailing exactly what Ashcroft just described about redoing a set of barrels can be viewed here, along with a bunch of other work that gives a good idea of what’s involved in a proper restoration of a quality gun.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=569690&page=6
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What a gorgeous gun and amazing craftsmanship. It illustrates how talentless i am and i hate myself every day because of it lol. Hope to see it at the next sxs classic
 
canvasback said:
As gunaholic noted, the last comment by Newby is profoundly incorrect. There are not a lot but we have some excellent craftsman at work in Canada who are fully capable of restoring a gun like this at a very competitive price. And I can tell you from personal experience, their prices are MORE than competitive with equal quality work done in the US.

One quick example. Oskar Kob who does Colour Case Hardening. He does work for, among other people, Martin Hagn. Hagn is one of the premiere rifle builders in the world. The designer of the Hagn action. When Heym wanted a new action designed for a double rifle, they had Hagn do it. Martin Hagn, earlier in his career, worked with the likes of Hartman and Weiss as well as with Peter Nelson. Probably the two finest gunmakers of the last 70 years. Their guns sell in the $175,000 to $250,000 USD range. And Oskar Kob’s CCH is good enough for Martin Hagn. At a price that is less than ANYTHING i have seen in the US.

One just needs to learn who the good people are and to be able to recognize what good work is.
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Dont get me wrong, we have good gunsmiths here. I have had some very good work completed in Canada. I argue on price. I know Americans that get specialized work done here, but that is due to the exchange. On the flip side I have a co worker that uses a gunsmith in the US to restore his antique pistols, the gun smith has access to original colt parts (which the gunsmiths here cant get). Even with the exchange... it is still cheaper then the best price he had get here.

I am always amazed when I find out how little it costs to get gun repairs done in the US. I have two gunsmiths that I use here but to get a screw made it costs $150.00, no where near that in the US. My Dad can get his motor home buffed and decals replaced at a trailer park for a fraction of what it costs here. Thats just the facts, labor is so much cheaper there. I am not here to argue, there are exceptions but this has been my experience.
 
Newby, if I sounded argumentative, didn't mean to. It's just my experience seems to have been quite different than yours. Now, I'm only paying attention to vintage shotguns and perhaps, as you mention, things may be different for items like Colts.

The gun I linked to, the Charles Daly. I know if I took that gun to some of the very best shotgun guys in the US, like Turnbull or Dewey Vicknair, the bill would be over $10,000 USD, which currently would be around $13,500 Canadian. I know I'm getting work done in that league of quality for very much less than $13,500. Expensive but no where near that number.

I had a Remington BE restocked last year for a price that is typically at the low end of what quality American stockers would charge, but I paid the number in Canadian dollars. And it's beautiful work.

If I owed the Kreighoff and Semper this thread is about, there is no way I would take it to the US for work. Maybe to sell once restored, but not for the restoration work.
 
canvasback said:
Newby, if I sounded argumentative, didn't mean to. It's just my experience seems to have been quite different than yours. Now, I'm only paying attention to vintage shotguns and perhaps, as you mention, things may be different for items like Colts.

The gun I linked to, the Charles Daly. I know if I took that gun to some of the very best shotgun guys in the US, like Turnbull or Dewey Vicknair, the bill would be over $10,000 USD, which currently would be around $13,500 Canadian. I know I'm getting work done in that league of quality for very much less than $13,500. Expensive but no where near that number.

I had a Remington BE restocked last year for a price that is typically at the low end of what quality American stockers would charge, but I paid the number in Canadian dollars. And it's beautiful work.

If I owed the Kreighoff and Semper this thread is about, there is no way I would take it to the US for work. Maybe to sell once restored, but not for the restoration work.
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Fair enough, vintage shot guns are by no means my specialty.

I sold the Krieghoff as I decided I was treading water on this one. I did note that the pedigree of the restoration is important for resale, I was going to restore it with my resources as I did not understand the politics of the situation.
 
It sure will Brybenn. Would have been a gorgeous back in the day. Hopefully whoever bought it will do it justice. I came close but too much else on the go.

Glad you were able to move it along Newby. Maybe one day it will show up in the SxS sticky thread at the top of the page.
 
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