Service condition beyond 500 meters?

ton45

ton45

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It's probably in the rule book, does service condition rifle matches ever go beyond 500? I know that this is a based on conditions that the rifleman can engage a target with his rifle's optimal or maximum envelope. But was this based on pre-optics days. The current C7s can, I believe, hit accurately to 700 meters with the better ammunition and optics that we have today. Isn't it also a welcoming challenge for a marksman involved in these matches to able to hit targets with their service rifle beyond 500 meters.

Wouldn't it be cool to have a "beyond 500 meters" match along with falling plates? This tyro is curious.

Tön45
 
Shooting over 500m with a C7 is pure target shooting, no practical value at all. Problems at that range is taken care by something else.
 
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real challegne is doping the wind and range estimation quickly. KD is not a difficult task at 500m. Going any further is pointless unless you are capable of doing accurate range estimation or a buddy is adjusting your fire. This is pure marksmanship masturbation because no normal joe with a C7 could pin down the range on his own with an Elcan, unless someone broadcasts the range with a laser range finder. Look, a 556 bullet drops over 40" in 100 yrds between 500 and 600. You pretty much miss the target if you guess the range wrong by 15 yrads.

Anyone can shoot KD at prone- but can you shoot 565 yards if you are not told it is 565 yards??
 
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At an ORA or was it a DCRA / NSCC trial match... can't remember anymore (must be getting older..) we shot at 600m (yes meters !!). One military shooter, who just happened to also be on this year's 2007 Bisley squad shot a 47 -2V at a 500m 'A' faced fig 12 on a 4 foot frame. Yup, he was using his box stock, rack grade C7A1 with issued ELCAN. Not bad. It can be done with the right circumstances, but yeah, Greentips is right, use the MG !

We've seen it done, but recall that we are using this situation on a ONE way range, and that's the context I want people to consider for this experiment I described. Your mileage may vary.

Cheers,
Barney
 
Okay, Okay, I got it now....

Ton45 , I can see where you are coming from. Just because you kicked ass during this July OSA Service Rifle match, it don't mean that you're ready to for the Service Conditions Championship in Sep 28 - 29. No, I'm just joking .... LOL

Your shooting in the past two matches just rocked our world. You DA Man !! :evil:

I'm so glad that you are ready for some longer range fun. Now you need to shoot some Precision Rifle matches with a sniper rig. You will be surprised how good you can get reading the wind... especially after you have been hanging around us... the usual suspects. :D

Glad to have you on board from La Belle Province....

Barney
 
Hungry said:
At an ORA or was it a DCRA / NSCC trial match... can't remember anymore (must be getting older..) we shot at 600m (yes meters !!). One military shooter, who just happened to also be on this year's 2007 Bisley squad shot a 47 -2V at a 500m 'A' faced fig 12 on a 4 foot frame. Yup, he was using his box stock, rack grade C7A1 with issued ELCAN. Not bad. It can be done with the right circumstances, but yeah, Greentips is right, use the MG !
Click to expand...

I remember that match. It was an ORA trial that didn't catch on too well. Weather conditions were pretty good.

It is pretty tough to make out the target at 600m with the Elcan,, and a 6 oclock hold worked the best.
 
I've been doing the ORA precision matches this year with my 24" bbl'd AR15 with 10X scope, and beating a number of 308 bolt guns. These matches are shot from 300y/m to 800y/m. So yes, it can be done but with a rack grade C7/AR15 it would be real challenge.

A few years ago Keith K. organized a set of 600y matches for SR at CFB Borden. Most of us shot these with std. 20" bbl'd AR15's. IIRC, the scores were surprising good, scores in the low to mid 40's for each match were fairly common. Yes, the conditions were very good with low steady wind which of course helped tremendously.

I'd like to see the 600y/m matches as an option even though they may not have practical field applications. It certainly challenges the shooter's marksmanship. :D
 
Just a 100 more meters is not too much to ask :D.

Now this temptation to go precision rifle is nagging me. Could be fun. Yo Barney...got any recommendations for a shoestring sniper gun? What do you shoot?

Tön

Hungry here:

You got the right guy here. I'm not an advocate of spending a pile of money on a Precision Rifle since I'm always sensitive to the concept of the 'Arms Race' winning matches that truly should be a test of marksmanship.

I just emailed KC at www. Milcun.com to cancel my order for a 6.5 x 284 rebarreling project. I'm returning back to my roots of a Precision rifle from a box stock Remington Police .308. I also like the Remington VS (Varmint Synthetic) in a .308. In the past I've had great success with M70 Stealth rifle in .308 as well as Coyote versions in both .308 and .223 (comes with a 9" twist bbl for 75 gr. AMAX bullets at 800m).

Don't fall into the trap of focusing on the boomstick building project. For example: we run into all kinds of people who will turn up with a Mike Rock 5R barrel installed on a blue printed M700 action, steel bedded into a McMillan A5 stock, and sporting NightForce 56mm optics on Badger Ordnance rings and bases. :p Then they shoot straight ZERO's at the 300m Agony snap (the scores are called up by radio and I'm wearing my Peltor ComTac earmuffs :evil: so I can hear all the zhtty scores) because they did not catch the wind shift partway through the 10 minutes behind their sniper rig waiting for 10 exposures. I've witnessed some sniper pairs THROW their rigs into their Blackhawk Drag bags ($ 299.00 CDN) and then bounce their rifles on the ground in disgust as we move our kit back to the 400m mound for the next match (even harder than the 300m Agony snap). LOL (but under my breath)

Here I am shooting a box stock (well, I did tweak the trigger and bed the action) M700 Police or Varmint 'Desert' Synthetic and I'm punching mid 40 scores. Hey, I'm shooting AMAX bullets and not those fancy SCENAR bullets. yuk yuk yuk. And I don't hand trickle my loads... I just throw using a powder measure. ha ha ha Then people wonder how I'm using a mere Leupold 6.5 x 20 x 50mm Mildot Mark4 mounted with Millett Angle-Loc rings and I'm kicken their asses !! ha ha ha

And that's why I compete with a Hawaii shirt and Blackhawk vest ! It's all about having fun !
 
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Actually we are lucky that ontario has a good program - look at some of the watered-down versions that are run in other places. Someone needs to trade mark "service rifle matches" to be the proper 12 matches as prescribed by DCRA. and run at CFSAC.

Shooting at 600 yrds at KD is just a small step. A much more challenging course of fire is a 500m field range. Put 10 Larue Steel targets at different ranges within 500m - and give each competitor 60 seconds to engage all of them.
 
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That sounds like a nice challenge. It's a great way to range estimate with your scope reticle. An exercise that we don't always do and I believe needs more practice. Um, we are allowed to know the size of the target, right?

Barney, I with you brother. Why do you think I am refusing to get rid of my chu wood. From the research I've done on the web, it seems that the Remington is the bang for the buck. I think it's still going to cost me more than a 1000. A decent scope and accessories will bring up the price tag. Ugh! Maybe I should get a used one.
 
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