Service Rifle Barrel Length

Rebarrelling a M-14 with an 18" barrel would be a bad idea, for legal reasons.

Any rifle can be used for competitions. The learning curve can be steeper for some rifles than for others. Some rifles are simply not as competitive.
Serious competitors - those planning on winning - are going to use equipment that will enable them to shoot to their potential.

This year at NSCC, there was a Ranger unit competing with their No. 4s. Some of the matches are adapted for them: they are allowed to load 10 rounds rather than 5, start the rapids in shooting position, rather than have to get into position, etc. The last stage of the FIBUA Match has three, three second exposures of a Fig. 14 target at 25m. One Ranger got 9 shots off, with 7 hits. This is outstanding shooting, better than many shooting auto rifles. Getting 10 hits with a semi auto .223 with optical sight is challenging enough.

Anyway, barrel length is one of the factors to consider when selecting a rifle for competition. Optimum or good enough?
 
There is a reason why the folks who are winning big service rifle matches on a regular basis are using
20 inchers or greater.
__________________
"Guns don't kill people.People kill people.Guns defend people from people with....smaller guns."

Let's back the bus up technophiles.

As the 2 CMBG winningest coach and 4 time ORA service rifle champ (in my spare time), I have come across a thousand of you guys. Dudes pissed at there gear, who got thier ass kicked by some reg force tyro with a 2.5 minute service rifle and a kicked open-on-the-range-can of ammo.

This is the difference between practice, practice, practice and the rest. As a combat shooting team in the regular force you start practicing with snow on the range. Months of dry fire and live fire practice to the tune of 100's of thousands of tax payer funded dollars on the range. Every day you shoot, record, dry fire, test and adjust. On weekends you shoot ORA matches and during the week you fire thousands of rounds, training 40 hours a week.

As the coach of one of these major unit teams I can tell you that you can compete as an un-funded reservist of civ shooter. DRY fire, DRY fire, DRY fire.

The worst thing you can do for your game is shoot live, once your gun is zero'ed and you believe in it. An unshakable confidence in your piece is critical to success. The difference between a loser and a winner is belief in winning. (Mental Management 101)

The whole point of this is to reinforce what the dude said at the top. Practice and belief win matches. Barrel lenght is for amateurs and the showers.

Last ever post, love the sport-hate the internet.

Kev
 
Browning Boy said:
There is a reason why the folks who are winning big service rifle matches on a regular basis are using
20 inchers or greater.
__________________
"Guns don't kill people.People kill people.Guns defend people from people with....smaller guns."

Let's back the bus up technophiles.

As the 2 CMBG winningest coach and 4 time ORA service rifle champ (in my spare time), I have come across a thousand of you guys. Dudes pissed at there gear, who got thier ass kicked by some reg force tyro with a 2.5 minute service rifle and a kicked open-on-the-range-can of ammo.

This is the difference between practice, practice, practice and the rest. As a combat shooting team in the regular force you start practicing with snow on the range. Months of dry fire and live fire practice to the tune of 100's of thousands of tax payer funded dollars on the range. Every day you shoot, record, dry fire, test and adjust. On weekends you shoot ORA matches and during the week you fire thousands of rounds, training 40 hours a week.

As the coach of one of these major unit teams I can tell you that you can compete as an un-funded reservist of civ shooter. DRY fire, DRY fire, DRY fire.

The worst thing you can do for your game is shoot live, once your gun is zero'ed and you believe in it. An unshakable confidence in your piece is critical to success. The difference between a loser and a winner is belief in winning. (Mental Management 101)

The whole point of this is to reinforce what the dude said at the top. Practice and belief win matches. Barrel lenght is for amateurs and the showers.

Last ever post, love the sport-hate the internet.

Kev
Click to expand...


I'd have to say I agree with this completely. :)

Barrel length will make a difference at 500m, but it is not what makes you win or lose. Fitness, mental prep, kit familiarity etc. make the winning combo.

Practice practice practice. For us civi's who can't do the 40 hours a week of training, we have to get what we can, where we can. When that reg force tyro beat you, good on him as far as I'm concerned. Hell, I'm just shooting for fun, he's potentially shooting for his and his buddies lives.
 
If I don't have a 20" barrel on my Armalite, will my #### fall off? :eek:

Years ago a particularly fit CGNutter showed up with a 12" barreled AR (before the days of KAC, LMT, LWRC, POF, SOB, SNAFU, and TARFU brands were marketed) to shoot Matches 1-12 at Connaught Ranges.

This very talented shooter had an ACOG Donut of Death mounted on his flat top. When all was said and done, he shot 56x.xV out of an HPS of 600 pts and pretty well topped the Indiv Grand Agg. :eek: Fxck, this guy could shoot and he won my admiration. :) I never hesitate to bust open this story whenever we get to a "barrel length" discussion. IIRC, the 1RCR Team shooting with us mirrored my comments at the Stats board that Timk brought out; "WTF?" was what we all said..... This guy could shoot. I just cannot remember if he shot with his plate carrier on. :evil: He was in darn good shape, too!

And that's the beauty of this game, intense training and superior fitness was thrown at me at an ORA Service Rifle clinic years ago, and that's the truth!

Barrel length is a hardware discussion, let's get yakking about training, using your gym memberships, dry firing, Vinyasa Yoga :eek: Hey, it's working for this old PHart! :p I'm actually serious! :nest:

Hope this helps you newer dudes out there. Just come out and shoot the matches put on by your local club(s)! :nest:

Cheers mates!

Barney
 
Browning Boy said:
There is a reason why the folks who are winning big service rifle matches on a regular basis are using
20 inchers or greater.
__________________
"Guns don't kill people.People kill people.Guns defend people from people with....smaller guns."

Let's back the bus up technophiles.

As the 2 CMBG winningest coach and 4 time ORA service rifle champ (in my spare time), I have come across a thousand of you guys. Dudes pissed at there gear, who got thier ass kicked by some reg force tyro with a 2.5 minute service rifle and a kicked open-on-the-range-can of ammo.

This is the difference between practice, practice, practice and the rest. As a combat shooting team in the regular force you start practicing with snow on the range. Months of dry fire and live fire practice to the tune of 100's of thousands of tax payer funded dollars on the range. Every day you shoot, record, dry fire, test and adjust. On weekends you shoot ORA matches and during the week you fire thousands of rounds, training 40 hours a week.

As the coach of one of these major unit teams I can tell you that you can compete as an un-funded reservist of civ shooter. DRY fire, DRY fire, DRY fire.

The worst thing you can do for your game is shoot live, once your gun is zero'ed and you believe in it. An unshakable confidence in your piece is critical to success. The difference between a loser and a winner is belief in winning. (Mental Management 101)

The whole point of this is to reinforce what the dude said at the top. Practice and belief win matches. Barrel lenght is for amateurs and the showers.

Last ever post, love the sport-hate the internet.

Kev
Click to expand...

Wow. I could blow a load of smoke up my own ass too but im not going to.
I highly doubt Keith Cunningham would be using a 20 inch plus barrel if it didn't have some benefit. Although I agree that practice makes perfect, I have yet to see anyone at a provincial championship or a national championship come out and even end up in the top 5 with a 12 inch barrel. Ever. Can it be done? Maybe. Can it be done on a consisant basis? No. For me the proof is in the pudding . Look at the national champions from the last 5 years or more. ALL of them were using 20-24 inch barrels.
 
Longshot said:
Wow. I could blow a load of smoke up my own ass too but im not going to.
I highly doubt Keith Cunningham would be using a 20 inch plus barrel if it didn't have some benefit. Although I agree that practice makes perfect, I have yet to see anyone at a provincial championship or a national championship come out and even end up in the top 5 with a 12 inch barrel. Ever. Can it be done? Maybe. Can it be done on a consisant basis? No. For me the proof is in the pudding . Look at the national champions from the last 5 years or more. ALL of them were using 20-24 inch barrels.
Click to expand...

Have you ever shot a 12.5" in SR? Perhaps you should try.

HK spec the G36K to be effective out to 400m. You should have no problem getting the job done at a yard range.
 
Never shot a 12 but I do have a 14.5 inch upper that I have shot at several matches and I would estimate a lower score each time by 20-30 points. The amount of clicks up was pretty horrendous compared to my issued C7 and that indicates lower velocities to me. Lower velocities bring a whole host of other problems. For some 20 points might not make a difference. But for me 20 points in the legacy 12 matches can be the difference between 1st and not even making the top 10.
 
I have also shot a G36k in a provincial SR match and it had exactly the same issues. At 4-500m it will land somewhere on the 4 ft frame. Also the optic on the 36 has repeatability issues along with no easy way to adjust it on a rundown.
 
Longshot said:
I have also shot a G36k in a provincial SR match and it had exactly the same issues. At 4-500m it will land somewhere on the 4 ft frame. Also the optic on the 36 has repeatability issues along with no easy way to adjust it on a rundown.
Click to expand...

Used a noveske 12.5 couple years ago for two seasons. I don't think it could be classified as handicaped - i have two 50 points score cards infront of me here from matches shot at 300 and 500yrd. yrd back in the days when ORA still shot the old 1-12.

I am just saying, if you are a newbie and buying into the theory that you need to have 20" or 24" to be competive- do not feel betrayed by the internet when the carbine mafia shows up and beat you to the ground. :p
 
No I'm with you. Seen it lots of times. All I'm saying that to realistically be a consistant elite level shooter that is winning top matches, a 12 inch barrel isn't going to help you get there much. Practice with whatever barrel you like but if you are serious about being one of the top people in the country you are smart to go to a little longer barrel.
 
greentips said:
HK spec the G36K to be effective out to 400m. You should have no problem getting the job done at a yard range.
Click to expand...

But, Effective is not the same thing as Best, and a competition is all about beating the rest of the field.

At distance, more velocity behind the same bullet is an advantage. If you shorten the barrel, you have to experiment with faster powders, or hotter loads to try to keep up.

The AR-15 mechanism was designed around the 20" barrel, and was a lightweight, well-balanced compact rifle. What advantage is there to be gained by swapping it out for a carbine barrel for range use?
 
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