Shared safe in a garage?

Tongarirohiker

Tongarirohiker

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Edmonton, AB
My friend has a problem, and that's lack of space in her place for her guns and other equipment. I am planning on buying a good sized safe, and was thinking I could anchor it into a corner of my garage. I'd be willing to store her stuff in there, and she'd be able to access the garage and grab her stuff while not needing access to the house itself.

Are there any legal issues around doing this?

I live in a place where -30 is a reality in the winter. My garage is currently unheated. Are there any concerns with the extreme cold and the guns?
 
Well for unrestricted this shouldn't be a problem. Restricted is where issues come up. The temp won't be too bad, just make sure to keep things lubed up.
 
As long as everyone who has access to the firearms is licensed to own and use them it is legal. Maybe throw a dehumidifer in there and use some blocks to get the safe off the ground.
 
This should be moved to the Legalese forum as for the legal issue of it. I don't have any personal knowledge about safes and low temperatures, but I can maybe help you out with the legal aspect of it.

Your scenario lacks a few precisions, namely which kind of firearms your friend would store in that safe. Seeing that you're posting in the Pistol and Revolver forum, one would think she would want to store restricted firearms in it.

As Gillen1 as pointed out, if it's the storage of non-restricted firearms, it shouldn't be an issue. Be sure to respect storage regulations. Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations (SOR/98-209)

If it's restricted firearms, you would have the following problem:

Places where prohibited and restricted firearms may be possessed

17. Subject to sections 19 and 20, a prohibited firearm or restricted firearm, the holder of the registration certificate for which is an individual, may be possessed only at the dwelling-house of the individual, as recorded in the Canadian Firearms Registry, or at a place authorized by a chief firearms officer.

1995, c. 39, s. 17; 2003, c. 8, s. 15.
Click to expand...

Firearms Act, of course. Holder doesn't mean "possessor", it means the person to which the certificate is issued to. Like if you have my driver's licence, you're not its holder.

As such, if such firearms were stored in your dwelling house your friend and you could be liable to the following criminal offence:

Possession at unauthorized place

93. (1) Subject to subsection (3), every person commits an offence who, being the holder of an authorization or a licence under which the person may possess a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or prohibited ammunition, possesses the firearm, prohibited weapon, restricted weapon, prohibited device or prohibited ammunition at a place that is

(a) indicated on the authorization or licence as being a place where the person may not possess it;

(b) other than a place indicated on the authorization or licence as being a place where the person may possess it; or

(c) other than a place where it may be possessed under the Firearms Act.

Punishment

(2) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)

(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Marginal note:Exception

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a person who possesses a replica firearm.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 93;1991, c. 40, s. 8;1995, c. 39, s. 139;2008, c. 6, s. 6.
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Hope this answers the legal aspect of it.
 
Thanks for the responses. ph33r, you are right in that I am referring to restricted, sorry that I wasn't clear on that. I'll move the legal part of the conversation to the legalese forum, but what you've said so far helps.
 
Keeping the guns at a constant temperature is a good thing, regardless of what the temperature is. When temperatures fluctuates below the dew point, frost forms in the winter, water forms in summer, and both cases can lead to rusting, particularly in places where there is restricted air flow. Installing an incandescent light bulb in the safe as a heat source might help, but only if the safe is insulated. I strongly advise keeping valuable guns in a location with a stable temperature.
 
Storing in a cold environment would be fine if constant temp maintained, but the firearms would immediately get wet from condensation when brought indoors for cleaning, inspection or to prepare for use. If you can heat the safe to a room-like temperature with a light bulb, goldenrod or similar it would be easier to move them in and out of storage without the need for extra care. You could also consider adding a cheap humidity meter to monitor humidity in the storage location (i.e. in the safe/locker).
 
What Ph33r said is true, but the other person can loan the firearms to you along with their registration certificates, and get an ATT to bring them to your house. Or it's even possible she could get your house listed as an additional storage location on her ATT.
 
If I were you I would not even think of doing this. What if you go there and one or more of your guns is gone. What if she says one of hers is missing and you get blamed for it. I can think of a lot of things happening and most of them are very bad not to mention the changing temps being very hard on your guns. Metal or plastic parts.

I also do not beleive anyone else is legally allowed to have acces to your guns.

Graydog
 
X2 to Greydogs point and to elaborate, the law states (as ph33r has provided) dwelling-house is where firearms are to located, and for good reason. Usually in a garage there are tools readily available that a thief wouldn't have to bother bringing in order to gain access to the safe. Aside from the legal aspect, its just a bad idea IMHO.
 
plinker 777 said:
X2 to Greydogs point and to elaborate, the law states (as ph33r has provided) dwelling-house is where firearms are to located, and for good reason. Usually in a garage there are tools readily available that a thief wouldn't have to bother bringing in order to gain access to the safe. Aside from the legal aspect, its just a bad idea IMHO.
Click to expand...

Just to be sure I'm clear, a dwelling house is so defined in the Criminal code (Firearms Act is criminal law legislation, it's connected)

“dwelling-house”

« maison d’habitation »

“dwelling-house” means the whole or any part of a building or structure that is kept or occupied as a permanent or temporary residence, and includes

(a) a building within the curtilage of a dwelling-house that is connected to it by a doorway or by a covered and enclosed passage-way, and

(b) a unit that is designed to be mobile and to be used as a permanent or temporary residence and that is being used as such a residence;
Click to expand...

You should interpret whether your garage is part of the dwelling house along that definition.

And Stevebot is correct, your friend should ask permission for secondary storage from the CFO. As he has also stated, some ATTs (mainly the BC and AB ones, as I understand) allow you to transport restricted firearms of which you have the registration certificate. So there's that to check out.

But generally speaking it would be safer to ask permission from CFO. Or store non-restricteds in order for her to have more space for her restricted, if that's a possibility.
 
From the OP's original post I assumed the garage was detached "she could have access to the garage but not the house itself" and the no heat statement, I don't think that situation would satisfy the definition of "dwelling/house"...I've been wrong before though, just read some past posts of mine! Lol!! :)
 
I can't speak to the legal aspect, although I'd be concerned that the garage isn't in itself all that secure as a location for a safe. I'd want to have it securely bolted down to as many surfaces as possible.

As to storing in extreme temps., although there MAY not be any problems, I'd be inclined, if you have enough room, to sit the safe on 2" of rigid insulation and build an insulated frame around it, with an insulated door (with a lock) as well as putting a light bulb or other small heat source inside the safe itself. The safe would be pretty hard to keep warm otherwise at -30. This would add about 2-3" to each side but it would keep the guns in a more normal environment, as well as disguising the safe to some extent. It would just look like a storage closet.

:) Stuart
 
Dude, I would not even think of doing this. The garage is the last place to keep your guns, think about it you knucklehead. She can get a half decent cabinet at CT for maybe a hundred bucks. For reference regarding unsafe storage of firearms please refer to Newtown connecticut school shooting 1 week ago. Christ on a bike brother, just cuz you can doesn't mean you should.
 
If you trust your friend with access to your firearms, you can give her a key to your house.

A garage isn't secure enough.
 
I have had my guns in a safe in my garage for 10 years with no issues and the garage was only heated for the last 3 of those. No rust, no problems, but j had 2 golden rods inside the safe at all times.

And how a garage is more secure than a patio door is beyond me you guys....lol......a motion sensor in the garage is the same as one in the house, and if you don't have a monitored alarm then a window is a window. I simply have a switch that kills power to the garage door to avoid the "code theft" scenario.

Also, store properly and legally...guns are just tools, I have plenty of more valuable and way more marketable toys in my garage that are not in a secured lag bolted safe.

That being said.....OP - figure out the storage and ATTs with the CFO and you should be jut fine.
 
I think you are just asking for trouble. She should keep her guns at her house and you should keep yours IN yours. Too simple to f@ck up that way, if you follow the rules.
 
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