she won't group! Ideas?

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Sydneyprice

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Hi folks, alright I've got a savage 110 300 win mag here with a leupold vx3 4.5-14 on it. I'd like to start off my stating I am not a crap shot nor is it my first sight in so let's eliminate those two as plausible options. I can't get her to group constantly worth a damn! First shot is always dead centre. Second two generally group somewhat close 2" or so at 100 yards. But any following shots could be anywhere between 2" left like the others or 8" low or wherever! I have noticed the barrel gets screaming hot even after 2 shots. This is what I think may be the issue? are the subsequent shots my body's natural flinching or something or the sort? It's being fed 180gr winny. She's going to be my main beast for my upcoming rosevelt hunt and I'd like to work out the nitty gritty. Worst case scenario, is my 308 a viable option? Thanks,

-Kyle
 
Does it return to the original zero once it cools? My 257 Vanguard opens up a bit after a few groups, you could start a grassfire with the barrel, but it calms back down as it cools off. I'd start by checking for any loose screws and ensure the barrel is free floated all the way back to the action. Check the scope for any scratches around the rings that might indicate its shifting under recoil.
308 will work if needs be.
 
If your barrel is hot after two shots you're not waiting long enough between shots. If its a thin contour barrel it might be picky and definitely needs time to cool between shots. Try all the different ammo you can find. My 300 shoots great from a cold bore but after 3 shots is all over the place. I just don't heat it up and it doesn't give me fits,

You might also be flinching, to test that employ a friend to watch you shoot and/or test you,

Patrick
 
I know most Savage rifles (all of mine) have come with bases already attached. I always tighten them but now I loc-tite because I have had them come loose. I have found that what happens is the shots wander like crazy the more you shoot long before you realize anything is loose. Good Luck.
 
"...the barrel gets screaming hot..." That's from shooting too fast.
Has it ever shot well? The scope screws tight? New scope?
The wandering shots is a bedding issue. Possibly the receiver, but more likely to be the barrel touching the stock. Check the action screws and the barrel channel. Remove the action screws and see if the receiver 'rocks' in the stock. That gets fixed with glass bedding(I'd do that anyway).
Don't recall if 110's(don't expect tack driving accuracy out of a hunting rifle. 110's are good, but target rifles they ain't. 2" at 100 is great for any hunting rifle.) are free floated or not, but look there. Run a $5 bill under the barrel with the action screws tight. If the 'fin' goes to just in front of the chamber area with no resistance, it's floated and the rifle may not like it. If there's a stoppage, remove it with sand paper. Shoot again. If that fixes it, you're done. If not, you need to put a pressure point in the right place. That's about 1.5 to 2 inches aft of the end of the forestock. Use just a wee bit of bedding material and don't forget the release agent.
"...is my 308 a viable option..." Yep. The .308 with 165 grain hunting bullets will kill anything you care to hunt. And with far less felt recoil than a .300 Mag.
 
Besides the sugestions already made, I would add

- if not already done, clean the barrel down to bare metal using Wipeout or equivalent. The before shooting for group, run 3-4 fouling shoots through the rifle.

- if not already done, glass bed the action and a couple of inches of the barrel. Make sure the rest of the barrel is free-floated.

- make sure all screws are tight. Ie action, bases, rings, windage ajustments(if applicable).
 
had a similar prob with rem700 ... I was starting to doubt myself

my solution was to change to a select match barrel and now she shoots real real tight
 
dimeN said:
had a similar prob with rem700 ... I was starting to doubt myself

my solution was to change to a select match barrel and now she shoots real real tight
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's probably it

Before you tighten screws, check pressure points and slow down, buy a new barrel. That should fix things right up!

Better order a Mcmillan stock also ;)

Patrick
 
keep groups to 3 shots with some time between shots to reduce excessive heat. If its already really hot out, this can cause erratic performance with some loads. check all action screws and ring and base screws. If you still have trouble try a different load.
 
This sounds like the kind of shooting issue we have all had at one time or another. If it was me, and my rifle, this is what I would do:

First, in a hunting rifle the single most important thing is holding zero. Grouping does not matter if the first shot is not where you aimed. For this reason I would bed the action, unless the rifle has proven to be accurate and stable, in which case I might leave it alone (if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.)

I have returned from the range more than once with poor results and then found that I had forgotten to tighten some part of the scope mounting system. It is important to LocTite (blue) the screws that hold the bases to the action. Once the scope is mounted, they can’t be checked for tightness, so LokTite them. Put the scope back on and make sure the ring screws are all tight and the big mounting screws are tight.
The barrel should be well clear of the wood. I don’t use a piece of paper. I use a patch or a piece of ammo box cardboard.

Factory barrels are not as well made and stress-relieved as custom barrels. Your testing will tell you what you have to work with. A light barrel may ‘walk” as it heats up. On a hunting rifle, the test is “Where does the first shot go?” In 99% of hunting shots, that is the only one that matters.

So, to test the rifle, fire one shot and let it cool for at least 5 minutes and fire the second shot. If it is within 2 minutes of the first, you have a good rig. Each time you do this, note where the first shot goes in terms of the aiming mark. First shot should always be within 2 minutes of the aiming mark. If it isn’t, the rifle needs a bedding job.
 
Rapid heating on a new barrel often equals copper fouling due to an imperfection in the barrel. Clean, shoot, clean, shoot, clean, shoot. I had one that took close to 100 rounds before it corrected itself. Now it shoots sub .5MOA.
 
Copy Ganderite. Make sure your scope mounts and rings are not loose. Make sure your action screws are not loose.

For me, If a hunting rig shoots two quick shots from a COLD bore into 1 1/2" at 100m, I'm satisfied. That's a realistic scenario for adequate hunting accuracy. More shots, and it's paper accuracy we're talking about anyway.
 
Sydneyprice said:
I'd like to start off my stating I am not a crap shot nor is it my first sight in so let's eliminate those two as plausible options.

...are the subsequent shots my body's natural flinching or something or the sort?
Click to expand...

You start by stating that you're not suspect, then follow up by asking if you are suspect.

Yes, you are suspect, until it can be ruled out. Once shooter error is ruled out, then move on to gun, optics, ammo and environment as possible causes..
 
dimeN said:
had a similar prob with rem700 ... I was starting to doubt myself

my solution was to change to a select match barrel and now she shoots real real tight
Click to expand...

It's a shame to have to throw money at a problem that should have never left the rifle factory in the first place.
 
I couldn't shoot my 300 wm well because after my first shot both my eyes were closed.. Zero fun to shoot.. Consider finding someone else willing to put 3-5 shots down range and see what they can do
 
Don't clean your barrel too much. From some reading, and also my experience it seems that Savage's like to be a little dirty to perform best. I'm not going to give you a # of shots to clean after, it kind of depends on your rifle. Practice dry firing and making sure your eyes stay open the whole time. It doesn't take very much movement to knock you off a couple inches at 100 yards. Make sure everything is tight. Loosen up your action screws and re-tighten them going from front to back. It also is a well known fact that the rear tang area around the safety likes to be free floating as well as the barrel. Lastly, what kind of scope are you using? Wandering zero could be a faulty scope. Do you or a buddy have a scope that you know to be solid? You could swap that out to rule that out as a source of error.
 
I had the same issues with the same rifle when it was new. Took between 50 and 100 rounds down the barrel to settle down. The rifle was amazing after that. Didn't shoot a lot of groups with it, but it was great, always hit what it was aimed at. After that I started shooting at 400 yard gongs and alternating with closer ranges. If you have the chance to do that it should tell you how you are shooting.

My rifle also did not shoot good with a freshly cleaned or oiled barrel. Took 4-6 rounds through it to calm it down. I have had issues in other rifles, but not the savages yet with copper fouling. I would use some wipe out and let it sit for a night or 2.

Also if you had the action out of the stock, make sure the mag well is not binding. Then tighten the front action screw, then the rear. I just go by feel and don't typically have a torque wrench. You don't want them overly tight, but you don't want them to work their way loose either.

I hope some of this helped! Best advise is to shoot it lots!
 
dimeN said:
had a similar prob with rem700 ... I was starting to doubt myself

my solution was to change to a select match barrel and now she shoots real real tight
Click to expand...


Sometimes the simplest solutions are also the best. Its so easy to throw hundreds of dollars worth of components and god knows how many trips to the range to try to make a POS barrel shoot. If groups open up to 8 inches after 3 shots that pipe isn't worth the effort.
 
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