Sheep Changes Coming

No one is confused here and while WSFAB's official stance is no changes until there is suffcient data, the fact still remains that there are people who thought those solutions were a good idea. Some of them are great in my opinion. But a trophy fee/longer wait times, draw/LEH, split season, shorter season and closing the season are junk and a lot worse than a full curl regulation.

I agree though, that ESRD needs to be forthcoming with their info and why they want the changes or if a change is needed, then a decision can be made.
 
patty59 said:
No one is confused here and while WSFAB's official stance is no changes until there is suffcient data, the fact still remains that there are people who thought those solutions were a good idea. Some of them are great in my opinion. But a trophy fee/longer wait times, draw/LEH, split season, shorter season and closing the season are junk and a lot worse than a full curl regulation.

I agree though, that ESRD needs to be forthcoming with their info and why they want the changes or if a change is needed, then a decision can be made.
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There have been people on this very board that support a draw so there's lots of opinions out there. I definitely see the value in knowing what ideas are floating around....unpalatable or not. I don't believe for a second that full curl is not an option if ESRD provides some compelling evidence that we need change but it is prudent to consider other possibilities as well....once we know the problem. I applaud WSFAB for taking a leadership role on this and ensuring information is being disseminated. Lord knows there's enough whining when it's not. Ultimately information is power. I don't really see the point of casting aspersions on them. To me, establishing a series of metrics to measure proposals against would be the prudent thing to do rather than letting personal opinions carry too much weight. But, I guess personal opinion would establish the metrics to grade proposals by but it would likely be a simpler exerciser to get consensus on that rather than looking at each idea through a personal eye.
 
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patty59 said:
Did anyone here attend that meeting in Sundre?
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Yup, Sheep as a whole are apparently doing well, yet only 3 % are 4/5 or larger rams in the population. Concern is that the younger fast maturing rams were being harvested before they could contribute to the genetic pool. There are going to be a couple of years where the chances of a Trophy ram are going to be decreased, but by allowing these rams to mature, there will be both an increase in the number of full curl rams and an increase in Trophy quality. In the mean time, there will still be an opportunity for everyone to hunt. At least, that's the theory. ;) Apparently, Alberta has about the best Sheep hunting opportunities, compared to other jurisdictions. Some places are once in a life time for rams. Chances of a hunter bagging a second ram in Alberta are only about 25%, so for most of us it's a one time deal anyway. Some very unhappy outfitters there. You'll still be able to kill a 4/5 curl ram in the northern WMUs.

Grizz
 
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guido said:
This might be because Alberta allows non-residents. Cut them out and the other jurisdictions wouldn't think opportunity is that great.
Also, there are only 2 provinces with sheep opportunity.
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Lots of opportunity in several states though.....all wide open to non-residents. I suspect people think it's best here because there is so much over-the-counter opportunity.
 
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Grizzly Adams said:
Yup, Sheep as a whole are apparently doing well, yet only 3 % are 4/5 or larger rams in the population. Concern is that the younger fast maturing rams were being harvested before they could contribute to the genetic pool. There are going to be a couple of years where the chances of a Trophy ram are going to be decreased, but by allowing these rams to mature, there will be both an increase in the number of full curl rams and an increase in Trophy quality. In the mean time, there will still be an opportunity for everyone to hunt. At least, that's the theory. ;) Apparently, Alberta has about the best Sheep hunting opportunities, compared to other jurisdictions. Some places are once in a life time for rams. Chances of a hunter bagging a second ram in Alberta are only about 25%, so for most of us it's a one time deal anyway. Some very unhappy outfitters there. You'll still be able to kill a 4/5 curl ram in the northern WMUs.

Grizz
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Thanks Grizz. That's sounds about the same as I heard down here. I have seen information that suggests they carry over of mature rams in WMU 400 is 10% or higher, which of course is a full curl zone.
 
sheephunter said:
Lots of opportunity in several states though.....all wide open to non-residents. I suspect people think it's best here because there is so much over-the-counter opportunity.
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That's not why people think it's the best, it's why it IS the best.

AS for non-residents, they come after residents in the sheep management plan. Currently the outfitters are receiving 20% but that can be scaled back to 15% or even 10% according to the plan. Which is what should happen before anything happens to resident hunting opportunities.
 
Grizzly Adams said:
Yup, Sheep as a whole are apparently doing well, yet only 3 % are 4/5 or larger rams in the population. Concern is that the younger fast maturing rams were being harvested before they could contribute to the genetic pool. There are going to be a couple of years where the chances of a Trophy ram are going to be decreased, but by allowing these rams to mature, there will be both an increase in the number of full curl rams and an increase in Trophy quality. In the mean time, there will still be an opportunity for everyone to hunt. At least, that's the theory. ;) Apparently, Alberta has about the best Sheep hunting opportunities, compared to other jurisdictions. Some places are once in a life time for rams. Chances of a hunter bagging a second ram in Alberta are only about 25%, so for most of us it's a one time deal anyway. Some very unhappy outfitters there. You'll still be able to kill a 4/5 curl ram in the northern WMUs.

Grizz
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Thanks Grizz.

We really do have it good here being able to buy a tag and go. Many would certainly trade their "once in a lifetime system" for a full curl rule. I think the idea of the mature breeding rams would have some merit with tightening the breeding window, and synchronize the herd a bit more to take advantage of any biophysical parameters that would aid herd health (eg peak forage etc.)

I think the resident hunters are the ones who should be unhappy - we seem to be lower consumptive users of the sheep resource comparatively (likely cause we are crappy hunters according to the resident expert LOL).
My guess is we deeply limit the allocation or completely rescind it and all of their management objectives would be easier to attain.
 
patty59 said:
That's not why people think it's the best, it's why it IS the best.

AS for non-residents, they come after residents in the sheep management plan. Currently the outfitters are receiving 20% but that can be scaled back to 15% or even 10% according to the plan. Which is what should happen before anything happens to resident hunting opportunities.
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Exactly.
 
patty59 said:
AS for non-residents, they come after residents in the sheep management plan. Currently the outfitters are receiving 20% but that can be scaled back to 15% or even 10% according to the plan. Which is what should happen before anything happens to resident hunting opportunities.
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Quoted for truth.
 
patty59 said:
That's not why people think it's the best, it's why it IS the best.

AS for non-residents, they come after residents in the sheep management plan. Currently the outfitters are receiving 20% but that can be scaled back to 15% or even 10% according to the plan. Which is what should happen before anything happens to resident hunting opportunities.
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Five of the WMUs slated for change currently have no non-resident hunting.
 
patty59 said:
The proposed changes don't restrict hunting opportunity, expect for the shortened season in 400 and 302 for 5 years.
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Technically no but if there are no legal animals in the mountains it's somewhat the same thing. Kind of like closing all the lakes with fish in them and leaving the ones without fish open. If the stats from WMU400 are any indication, harvest will be pretty dismal for the first five years or so. Are we still really hunting when there is nothing to hunt? Many would say no. I can hike all year already...without a sheep tag in my pocket.
 
sheephunter said:
Technically no but if there are no legal animals in the mountains it's somewhat the same thing. Kind of like closing all the lakes with fish in them and leaving the ones without fish open. If the stats from WMU400 are any indication, harvest will be pretty dismal for the first five years or so. Are we still really hunting when there is nothing to hunt? Many would say no. I can hike all year already...without a sheep tag in my pocket.
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Nice to see him finally admit this is about harvest opportunity for him anyway.
 
guido said:
I "suspect" the statement that Grizz posted included all the sheep zones in Alberta. (other than the draw only zones)
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I suspect it did too and I wasn't commenting on his statement....my point was for those asking for outfitting reduction that a large part of the area has no outfitting so reducing outfitter allocations would have no effect on many of the WMUs. The government seems determined to make blanket regulations work but reducing outfitting would have no effect from WMU408 south so how do we fix those WMUs? If the solutions being offered up are really about sheep and resident opportunity why are we spending so much time talking about outfitting when there is none in about half of the affected area. Kinda seems to me that some are missing the big picture here....at least those Lethbridge south.
 
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