Shooters Arms vs Sig production process
- Thread starter FyreFighter
- Start date
- Location
- British Canuckistan
very interesting videos. make me want a SAM more now! 
ambishooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southeastern Canuckstan
They are sold in the US under the American Tactical Imports brand, pretty much the whole SAM line of 1911's, and they also make the Iver Johnson line which are kind of cheesy lol
The ATI line is priced the same or higher on some models then we pay here.
The ATI line is priced the same or higher on some models then we pay here.
Yeah it still would not be twelve guys with toothbrushes, files and screwdrivers. Hyundai Heavy Industries, the parent company, is one of the world's biggest and most sophisticated industrial operations in the history of the universe. The Hyundai motors group is one of the tinier divisions.
FF
FF
ambishooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southeastern Canuckstan
Google "Philippine Gun Industry" and you will be amazed how these craftsmen turns scrap steel slabs into a workable firearm. From Revolvers, Semi-auto pistols to Full-autos, you will appreciate the work of these craftsmen. I say craftsmen since they do not have formal training in gunsmithing and yet able to make a usable firearm. They copy using basic tools: Drill Press, hacksaw, grinder, file, hammer and sander. Beware: Plenty of counterfeit firearms in circulation destined to the underground market particularly in Japan and North America. SAM, Metro Arms and Armscor are few of the legal firearms manufacturing company. COLT 1911s, STI pistols, S&W revolvers are the common counterfeit brands in circulation.
Go complain at your union meeting then.
I see hard workers taking pride in their quality of work and making an honest living.
kschneider
Regular
- Location
- southern ontario
Yes, not making $30 an hour, hiding in a corner reading a news paper, or standing around saying "that's not my job". I know this for a fact, cause my dad use to come home from GM bragging he did it. LOL.
kschneider
Regular
- Location
- southern ontario
To which universe are you referring, because in my universe, The Mitsubishi Group has almost 3 times the revenue, and twice the employees, plus the Evo 10 could kick any Hyundai's as*. LOL.
- Location
- Burnaby, BC
I think you get what you pay for. I'm sure all SAM products are made very well for the price. The thing we don't know is quality of material and how well hammer forging is done in the Philippines. The biggest issue with hand made is that is is hand made by many people and no 2 guns are ever alike, thus performance, longevity, and reliability are never alike. For Canadian plinkers it doesn't matter as long as it goes bang. For LE it's a different league. I don't own a SAM, but my Sig Scorpion 1911 is a sweet piece.
But here is another interesting vid on Philippines gun love.
But here is another interesting vid on Philippines gun love.
1911 is probably my favorite pistol design, but I would never carry one if we were allowed....I wouldn't trust my life to any 1911, there are better designs for sure. For targets they rock lol
For having so many hands on these, the tolerances are pretty impressive. I had a custom bushing cut for my Omega 6, its wrench fit and 1 thou over the barrel diameter. I measured my ss commander and the barrel and slide are within one thou of the Omega. When the safety engages there is no gap around it at all in the slide cutout on both guns. Only thing I could see that was a hair different was the BT safety on the ss gun has a little side to side play compared to the omega. Slide and frame rails are cut true and square, no rattle or side play, and just a touch up/down in battery.
They use 4140 carbon and 416 ss, which are both fine grades for a 1911. For build quality I would put them on par or ahead of Ruger for similar casting and miming of everything, but ahead of Ruger for fit and tolerances.
And really they are priced similar for comparable models...
For having so many hands on these, the tolerances are pretty impressive. I had a custom bushing cut for my Omega 6, its wrench fit and 1 thou over the barrel diameter. I measured my ss commander and the barrel and slide are within one thou of the Omega. When the safety engages there is no gap around it at all in the slide cutout on both guns. Only thing I could see that was a hair different was the BT safety on the ss gun has a little side to side play compared to the omega. Slide and frame rails are cut true and square, no rattle or side play, and just a touch up/down in battery.
They use 4140 carbon and 416 ss, which are both fine grades for a 1911. For build quality I would put them on par or ahead of Ruger for similar casting and miming of everything, but ahead of Ruger for fit and tolerances.
And really they are priced similar for comparable models...
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calvados.boulard
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Victoria BC
I don't normally call out people's comments on forums, but this one really got me. I toured one of the SAM plants 5 weeks before Haiyan struck, and I can say with confidence and 1st hand experience that you know not of what you speak. Everyone I met there was extremely professional and knowledgeable. Much more so in fact that some of the smiths I have met on this side of the water. Saying that they are using "under-aged sweat-shop workers" to "save a lot of money" is blatantly false and should be respectfully rescinded by the author. Nowhere did I see anyone that would be considered "under-aged". The cramped conditions you see in the video are not uncommon in Asia where real estate and space is at a premium.
Knowledge is power...specifically 1st hand.
Thanks,
Cal.
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kschneider
Regular
- Location
- southern ontario
My husband is a truck driver, and I have been to "sweat shops" in Toronto, Montreal, and New York City that make SAM's factory in the video look like the Waldorf Astoria. Your fooling yourself if you think people in Canada and the US don't take advantage of young, undocumented workers as well.
calvados.boulard
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Victoria BC
Oh I don't deny that at all. I'm just saying that the people of the Philippines are a proud people, and the people I met at SAM even prouder. They would hate to be thought of as slave labor. They are truly passionate about what they do and the skill it takes for them to do it. They are by no means uneducated, illiterate, or shoeless as the image of "sweatshop" brings to mind.
It's true that wages in their society are not what they are in ours. This is unfortunately just the way it is. Relative to their society they are doing quite well and could be considered their middle class. Philippine Peso to Canadian dollar puts them around the poverty line-ish in our economy.
For the record I'm not at anyway affiliated with SAM. Nor do I own, or have I ever owned, a SAM. The SAM pistols that I have had the opportunity to shoot have been a real pleasure, though for now, I'll stick with my STI Trojan 6.0.
Thanks,
Cal.
- Location
- West Quebec
Oh I don't deny that at all. I'm just saying that the people of the Philippines are a proud people, and the people I met at SAM even prouder. They would hate to be thought of as slave labor. They are truly passionate about what they do and the skill it takes for them to do it. They are by no means uneducated, illiterate, or shoeless as the image of "sweatshop" brings to mind.
It's true that wages in their society are not what they are in ours. This is unfortunately just the way it is. Relative to their society they are doing quite well and could be considered their middle class. Philippine Peso to Canadian dollar puts them around the poverty line-ish in our economy.
For the record I'm not at anyway affiliated with SAM. Nor do I own, or have I ever owned, a SAM. The SAM pistols that I have had the opportunity to shoot have been a real pleasure, though for now, I'll stick with my STI Trojan 6.0.
Thanks,
Cal.
Just for the record STI think highly enough of Philippine guns to have their own "Spartan" made there..
kschneider
Regular
- Location
- southern ontario
Oh I don't deny that at all. I'm just saying that the people of the Philippines are a proud people, and the people I met at SAM even prouder. They would hate to be thought of as slave labor. They are truly passionate about what they do and the skill it takes for them to do it. They are by no means uneducated, illiterate, or shoeless as the image of "sweatshop" brings to mind.
It's true that wages in their society are not what they are in ours. This is unfortunately just the way it is. Relative to their society they are doing quite well and could be considered their middle class. Philippine Peso to Canadian dollar puts them around the poverty line-ish in our economy.
For the record I'm not at anyway affiliated with SAM. Nor do I own, or have I ever owned, a SAM. The SAM pistols that I have had the opportunity to shoot have been a real pleasure, though for now, I'll stick with my STI Trojan 6.0.
Thanks,
Cal.
My comments were not in reference to your comments, but directed at all the negativity about SAM.
ambishooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southeastern Canuckstan
Maybe not. It was only in the 90s when Armscor started production of 1911 and it's hicap variant. They invested in CNC machines and other tools. 1911s were never made or assembled in the Philippines until Armscor started its own line and build for some other brand as Charles Daly.
