Shooting a Damascus barrel shotgun with non-BP loads

wasa

wasa

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Curious about people's experience with shooting Damascus barreled shotguns. I have an old double barrel shotgun with exposed hammers and twisted steel barrel that I would like to shoot. Google searching led me to http://www.rstshells.com/ which claims to make shotgun shells for old shotguns. I emailed them and they suggested http://www.rstshells.com/12-ga-2-1/2-ultra-lite-vel-1125-3/4-oz-load-case.aspx which I was told are less pressure than black powder loads.

Here is the email I received from RST
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Our 12 gauge 2 1/2" Falcon 7/8 oz or the Falcon Ultra Lite 3/4 oz would be fine for your damascus barrel. If the barrels are in very good shape you maybe able to get i to the 1 oz loads as well. The pressure are
3/4 oz - 4400 Psi
7/8 - 5300 Psi
1 oz - 6200 Psi
That can give you an idea of where you may need to be. We always recommend starting with a good look over by a qualified gunsmith to get a good idea of what your gun can withstand.
Thank you
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I shoot in-line muzzleloaders, so I do have a supply of Pyrodex RS powder if I wanted to try and load my own shotgun shells, but I don't have a MEC or Lee loader (and I really don't want to buy a reloader just to load 20 or so rounds).

Thoughts? Suggestions? Some will say to make it a wall hanger, but I'm sure 100 years ago someone shot many birds with this gun. It appears to be in great shape overall.

Thanks
 
It doesn't matter if someone shot many birds with it 100 years ago, the question is what toll has the last 100 years taken on it. How thick are the barrel walls? How much pitting in the bores? Any bulges, dents or detectable cracks in the barrels? Is it tight on face?
As far as the RST, I have used them in Damascus barreled guns without issue but the guns are sound.
 
I got some mag tech 2 1/2 brass shells and fired 25 stout 16ga BP round ball loads(cyl bore in both barrels), while i was a very safe distance away. Then i felt safe to use it with moderate BP loads next to my face. Im not saying do this to a fine collecter piece as it is a risk, but I also have yet to see one pop. The bores must also be in shootable shape before even considering testing the strength of an old bp double. Some look pretty on the outside with sewer pipes for damascus bores that wouldnt be worth fingers or a face. But some make amazing shooters aswell. I reload all my mag tech brass with hand tools that could be bought or made.

Just my 2 cents

Rebel
 
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1. Get the gun checked out by a reputable gunsmith with damascus barrelled shotgun experience. Note the word shotguns. Rifles have stronger actions and thicker stronger barrels.
2. If the action locks securely and if the barrels are sound, listen to the advice your gunsmith gives you. He is covering his a$$ but also protecting your face and fingers.
3. For black powder ammo you will need to load your own. For extra low pressure smokeless, RST is a good choice, can be sourced through Prophet River.
4. Play safe, have fun.
 
I think the biggest issues are how thick are the barrels and how deep are the pits in the bore; that is what the gunsmith may be able to help you with. I will also qualify that statement with the gunsmith needs to be someone with experience with damascus barrels. You will run across a lot of people who will say categorically damascus barrels are unsafe to shoot and that is not correct provided the gun is in good condition and the pressures are low. In my experience of loading with 7625 powder, loads in the 4000 psi range left a lot of unburned powder and I upped my loads to about 8000 psi

cheers mooncoon
 
Gunsaholic has the answer for you.
If the condition of the gun is so good that the black powder pressures the gun was designed for is still safe for your gun, then the RST low pressure shells will be equally safe. I have and shoot perhaps 2 dozen damascus-barrelled guns. Damascus is not inherently more dangerous than fluid steel, its the condition of the barrels that matters. I like to see 0.025" minimum wall thickness then feel pretty good with sub 7000 psi chamber pressures. Some guns have shiny bores but have been honed excessively to make them so. This in order to remove pitting from rust following improper care when using corrosive primers and BP. In every case with vintage guns I have the barrel wall thickness measured and action integrity assessed professionally before considering it a shooter. I personally do not shoot RST because my club requires #9 and RST 's smallest shot is #8. So its loading my own using cut hulls with 700x. It is unfortunate that some of the best smokeless low-pressure powders for reloaders have recently been discontinued.
 
Londonshooter said:
Gunsaholic has the answer for you.
If the condition of the gun is so good that the black powder pressures the gun was designed for is still safe for your gun, then the RST low pressure shells will be equally safe. I have and shoot perhaps 2 dozen damascus-barrelled guns. Damascus is not inherently more dangerous than fluid steel, its the condition of the barrels that matters. I like to see 0.025" minimum wall thickness then feel pretty good with sub 7000 psi chamber pressures. Some guns have shiny bores but have been honed excessively to make them so. This in order to remove pitting from rust following improper care when using corrosive primers and BP. In every case with vintage guns I have the barrel wall thickness measured and action integrity assessed professionally before considering it a shooter. I personally do not shoot RST because my club requires #9 and RST 's smallest shot is #8. So its loading my own using cut hulls with 700x. It is unfortunate that some of the best smokeless low-pressure powders for reloaders have recently been discontinued.
Click to expand...

Great answers as well from
Ashcroft and Mooncoon.
 
When I was in Victoria in the 70's, people were sending their damascus shotguns back to England for reproofing.

A number of proofed passed shotguns still blew up when fired.

Shotguns are cheap relative to the price of replacement fingers and other body parts !
 
Chris Dawe checked my Greener 10 gauge, and said it was Ok to shoot. I shoot the RST 1150 FPS 2 7/8 loads out of mine. Never shoot a gun without having it checked if it has damascus barrels. Mine is a swather on sharptails and huns.
 
sail32 said:
When I was in Victoria in the 70's, people were sending their damascus shotguns back to England for reproofing.

A number of proofed passed shotguns still blew up when fired.

Shotguns are cheap relative to the price of replacement fingers and other body parts !
Click to expand...

A good number of safety checked cars have accidents. Not necessarily the car's fault.
 
I shoot a number of vintage cartridge shotguns, and the big issues that one may encounter besides the barrels(, pitting, cracks, etc), the condition of the wood is a big one.
if the wood is tight, BP loads will be fine, or low pressure smokeless rounds.
I just traded a Greener F16 that was reproofed by Birmingham about 30 years ago , it is tight and shoots well.
However it is tested for smokeless 1 1/8 oz loads so I did not shoot it with heavy smokeless loads.
My 16 is a very old underlever, and I shoot 65 grains of FFG and 7/8 oz of shot inn ti using brass cases .
My 12 is also over 100 years old now , butt handles 90 grains of FFG and 1 /14 oz of bismuth with no issues, I shoot mostly 80 grains and 1 1/8 0z loads however.
Cat
 
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