shooting cast in milsurps

T

Talquin

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Hello guys,

I'm going to start trying my hand at casting bullets. I know the reloading section is were I go to start with the various mixes and such but I was wondering if I could get some infro from the misurp specialists

Planning on casting for
38 S&W
6.5 swede
6.5 jap
8x60 steyr
303 brit

Any advice for these calibers and reccomendations on what not to do?
 
Cast bullets

First of all, get a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. There is lots of information in it about cast bullet loads.

On of the favorite starting loads is 13 grains of Red Dot with any appropriate weight of cast bullet in a Military medium sized rifle cartridge Calibre of the .303, .308, 7x57, 8x57, the 6.5s, and so on. This was developed by C.E. Harris, a contributor to "The American Rifleman" and is referred to as "The Load."

Cast bullets are a bit more demanding to work with, as bullet weights, alloys, primers and other factors seem to have more effect on their accuracy. For the rifle calibres, an alloy of 1-10 (tin-lead) works well for general shooting, but 1-15 and 1-20 expand better for hunting. Pistol bullets should have less tin. Wheel weights can be used, but beware of the newer ones. They are an alloy that will ruin your lead alloys if mixed. These are generally painted or have a plastic like coating on them.

I like to buy bar solder if I see it at auctions. A 50-50 bar solder has equal parts of tin and lead, and you can use about 1 pound to 20 pounds of lead for good bullets. Wheel weights by themselves are about 1% tin, 6% Antimony, and 93% lead. These numbers can vary slightly. A good rifle mixture for an alloy is 1 part tin, 1 part antimony and 10 parts lead.

Old houses in your area might have lead sheathing on their plumbing standpipes on the roof. These are usually pure lead, and if anyone is tearing down an old house, it can be a good 10 pounds of lead or so.

If you do happen to mix up the newer alloy wheel weights with a lead mixture, it will look like frozen slush, and not pour well. You have to scrupiously clean your melting pot, or a small amount of the wheel weight alloy will contaminate your mixture.
 
You should run a pure lead slug through the bore of each rifle. In most cases, lead bullets about .002 over size shoot best, but bullet shape can be important. Longer round nozed bullets (more weight forward) tend to shoot better than pointed spitzer types.

Lubrication and sizing are very important. I like the LEE sizers because they push bullets through the die from the base and do not seem to deform the bullets a lot. The LEE liquid Alox formula is a good lubricant.

Because lead bullets are softer, they will scrape or deform when seated. Lyman made a M type die that gave an enlarged inside neck diameter for a short distance to help seating. LEE makes an expanding die, but it sort of funnel shaped. LEE also makes a hardness testing kit to give you an idea of just how hard your bullet alloy is.

Iron or Aluminum moulds are acceptable. Iron tends to hold heat more, and Aluminum should be smoked with a match or candle to put a bit of soot on it to help release bullets better. You have to cast several bullets to heat a mould up, but once you get it to temperature, then it usually will cast well.

Feel free to PM or e-mail

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thanks for the info. also answers my question about hunting with cast bullets.

Cast is more for my pistol and my steyr. next thing I have to do is get a good setup for reloading.
 
I cast for my Mosin Nagant (7.62x54R) and my Lee-Enfield No4. Mk1* (.303 British). Everything buffdog has said is spot on; slug your bores. A good way to do this is with fishing weights (the oblong kind). Pound them in with lengths (about 3" each) of wooden dowel (prevents snapping) and a non marring plastic or rubber mallet.

I use ALOX for mine, though I will soon be experimenting with pan lubing. I find with the ALOX that even with rounds pushing 1,800fps, leading is minimal.

Another load I'd recommend is 26grns of RL-7. Its not as light as the abovementioned Red Dot load, which I've also tried, but you'll be able to stick closer to your rifle(s)' point of aim with iron sights than you would otherwise. With the Red dot load, I have to raise my sights on my Mosin almost 500m.

One thing you'll likely find is that the bores are larger than expected, either because they may have been expanded through alot of shooting or are just big as a result of wartime production. When I slugged my bore, I found my Enfield was around .313, and so I needed to produce larger than average bullets. The Lyman 314299 mould is good for this, throws a 200gn round nosed bullet that takes a .30 calibre gas check. It throws between .3135 and .314 (after I sent it back to be re-milled). These, on the RL-7, shoot very well out of my Enfield, and its what I'll be using in deer season this year.

One thing to consider is these loads will both only occupy a portion of the case volume. To ensure consistent results, once you've added powder to your resized and primed case, take a small amount of some form of inert or harmless 'filler'. I use cotton wool, some recommend using the fluffy material (NOT POLYSTYRENE) used to stuff teddy bears, which is available at craft stores. It keeps the powder up against the primer for consistent ignition. The only difference you might notice is a puff of unburned material coming out of the muzzle when firing.

Good luck.
 
"...of wooden dowel..." Just use a 1/4" brass or Al rod. Wood of any length will mash in the barrel and possibly get stuck.
 
Don't use wood!
Use the search function and see how threads there are on how to remove the broken bit's from inside the barrel
 
Like guys above say:

1.Slug yer bore-first 2 inches in front of chamber are all you need.

2.Water quenched wheelweights are fine IMHO.

3.Find out what OAL of a cartridge you need before you load up.Casts shoot a lot better when close to max OAL,but do not touch rifling (thats usually a lot more than what's listed).

4.Use Case Expanding Die to bell out mouth of cases just a bit-It will save you a lot of trouble.

5.No extra filler needed with Red Dot/Promo powder at all.
 
Here's links to three threads about my experiences casting for 8x56R Mannlicher, .303 British and 8mm Mause with photos of the results.

I was able to get some decent accuracy over time, mainly by shooting my bullets through a few rifles and experimenting with sized and unsized bullets. I'm less than handy when it comes to things like slugging bores (I learn okay with a mentor, but can really get frustrated doing things like that on my own) but it's clear from the evidence that it would have eliminated a lot of guess work.

8x56R w Cast Bullet/Preliminary Results:

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=1415

.303Br with Cast/Preliminary Results (some photos of groups on pg. 2):

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=1493

Some 8mm Cast Bullet Observations (with pics of groups from a Brno and Russian Capture Mauser):

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=1792&p=8175#post8175
 
The loads mentioned in the milsurps threads all seem to be fairly light. I guess that's due to the need to tone down the lead rounds to avoid leading the barrel?

In particular I'm interested in the .303 British loads as I'm looking at reloading some for the LE sporter I've got for range plinking using the cast lead bullets I can get through my local Bullet Barn rep. But I'd like to get something close to a proper LE recoil rather than something that kicks weakly like these fairly light loads would suggest.
 
BCRider said:
The loads mentioned in the milsurps threads all seem to be fairly light. I guess that's due to the need to tone down the lead rounds to avoid leading the barrel?

In particular I'm interested in the .303 British loads as I'm looking at reloading some for the LE sporter I've got for range plinking using the cast lead bullets I can get through my local Bullet Barn rep. But I'd like to get something close to a proper LE recoil rather than something that kicks weakly like these fairly light loads would suggest.
Click to expand...

Casting can be interesting but also time consuming, so I could appreciate your purchasing from the Bullet Barn.

What you'll probably want to find out is the Brinnell Hardness of the BB bullets. If they're hard enough, you should have no problem pushing them to more conventional centrefire velocities, still with lower pressures and less wear upon the barrel. I don't have the precise hardness to potential velocity charts before me, but the Lee manual has the info, along with loads for .30/30, .308 Win and 30.06 that could serve as a starting point.

I've only loaded to around 1750 fps velocities in 8mm Mauser & 205gr bullets(at least that's what it crony'd in someone else's Turk Mauser). With wheel weights and a 5% tin mixture that I used, I would presume that's the higher end of safe velocities (no leading) without water quenching or oven heating.

Cheers,

Frank
 
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