Anyone know where to get an F1 Master Chrony at a good price? I can see one on ebay for around $129 shipped as a buy it now item. Is this a good price? Just getting into reloading and I don't see how you can work up the best load without knowing the velocity. Please correct me if my thinking is wrong?
Shooting Chrony
- Thread starter Norm99
- Start date
Wholesale Sports sells that model for $149, so it seems like a pretty good deal. I have one of the original green box Chronies and it still works good.
They can tell you a lot of things, so you are correct when you say that they are very useful for working up loads. I've been surprised at the velocity, or in some cases the lack of velocity that some of my loads have had.
They can tell you a lot of things, so you are correct when you say that they are very useful for working up loads. I've been surprised at the velocity, or in some cases the lack of velocity that some of my loads have had.
I am looking to get a chrony as well but there are other things more important than velocity. No matter what speed the bullet goes if it won't group well it's not worthwile.
The other side of the sword is if it's not going fast enough to down your game I guess it doesn't matter how accurate it is. You won't be able to figure out the bullets trajectory either.
It's one of those things you'll probably use little but would be good to have.
The other side of the sword is if it's not going fast enough to down your game I guess it doesn't matter how accurate it is. You won't be able to figure out the bullets trajectory either.
It's one of those things you'll probably use little but would be good to have.
I guess what I'm thinking is, and it's all theory on my part since I've never loaded a single shell yet, is that, at some point, I would need to know where the "sweet spot" is. The balance between accuracy and peek velocity would be that spot. How can I know peek velocity of any load without this instrument? I would have thought you'd use it a lot.
I'm sure you'll get a lot of use out of a Chrony if you buy one. It can tell you how consistent your velocity is, which may be a factor in accuracy. You'll also know that may have excessive pressure if the velocity is too high.
A Chrony may not be a necessity, but eventually I think all handloaders should think about picking one up. They are useful tools for reloading, but not overly expensive.
A Chrony may not be a necessity, but eventually I think all handloaders should think about picking one up. They are useful tools for reloading, but not overly expensive.
I managed to reload for twenty years without needing one. Now I have one and can't live without - but now I'm doing long-range shooting and other things that one actually does need a chrony for.
As for pressure, you can pickup signs without a chrony. Eg., the bolt is sticky when you try to open up.
As for pressure, you can pickup signs without a chrony. Eg., the bolt is sticky when you try to open up.
I own a Beta ( remote ) with the printer. I love it. You must shoot slowly to let the printer the time to do it's job, but you end up with printed data for a ten shot string with low, high, average velocity and standard variation. You can also download data on to your PC. You can also write down your shots, but now that I have it, I wuld not want to be without the printer. The Chrony is good and made in Canada. If you end up shooting it up, it is not too expensive to get it repaired. Check their web site for infos and download the manuals : http://www.shootingchrony.com/
Norm99 said:
Not to argue with you, but what happens if your loading manual says a load gives 3100 fps AT MAXIMUM, and the chrony says it is only 2950?
Do you ingore all the warnings in the book, and go over MAXIMUM?
A chrony is a fun toy, and it is interesting to see how "optomistic" some of the manuals can be, but dont fall into the velocity trap.
tootall said:
Unless you are an experienced handloader, it woudl be foolish to ignore published data by reputable sources. And even then, you don't *ignore* it. You *use* it. It's a part of your "toolkit'
If your load is only going 2950 and it shoudl be 3100, then that is when you stop just following directions, and start using your knowledge, skills and your common sense and proceed from there.
Gatehouse said:
A chrony being an electronic device is subject to malfunction, false readings, tolerances, sensitivity, calibration it does not replace common sense as Gatehouse so simply stated. If something doesn't jive you need to review the data. Any publication is subject to error. If you're going to venture into the area of reloading take it slow and easy. I have always recommended that anyone new to reloading spend some time maybe a good deal of time with an experienced reloader. What is safe in one rifle may not be safe in another for a variety of reasons. How many times have you read this statement? How many times have shooters when publishing their data also stated this fact? Safe in my gun your mileage may vary.
There have been a number of documented error in reloading manuals when comparing them over the years for many different calibres. Some of the published data is simply wrong, A lot of the published data is such that loads are erorred on the conservative side probably rather no doubt for liability or litigation issues.
Something as simple as whether bullets are moly'd or bare can have a serious beariing on pressure.
I don't know how many threads I've read where a load is given and there is no mention of moly'd or bare.
There isn't a device or published data out there that can replace what's between your ears.
Using a chrony in my opinion is critical to anyone who reloads for either target shooting purposes or even hunting. Sure you can get away without using one but why would you want to? Cost? The fact you've searched the net and 9 out of 10 shooters are able to achieve a particular velocity in their setup so why blow a couple hundred bucks on a chrony.
Loads when approaching max. need to be worked up CAREFULLY and slowly for each situation regardless if it's identical to several others. Reloading is very safe when attention is paid to details of the procedure. If it wasn't we'd be reading or hearing about some interesting stuff.
Th pros/cons vary but anyone taking up the sport of competitive target shooting would be well advised to consider the use of one in their setup. It's another check and balance and I believe it's an important one.
If you get a new unit and it doesn't seem to be in sync with some of the data you are using you might want to run some tests beside another identical or different manufacturers unit. These things provide you with data but you still have to interpret the results.
I find this is especially true when you are over published values and many of us are right at the top of the envelop these days, but we are still safe.
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tootall said:
Too true. the velocity the reached was in their rifle, not yours. You may have a tighter chamber or bore, and so may actually hit pressure signs before your load maxes out. Having a velocity under their's shouldn't be as worrying as having one OVER it. Velocity equals pressure, all things being equal. If your much faster, your pressure is higher...period.
Well, there are other factors in play. Moly, barrel length, thread wear & freebore, OAL, powder and priomer lot #'s, temperature, altitude, etc.
As Gathouse alluded, experience is key here. There is NO WAY to exactly know your pressures. Even the Oehler ballistic lab isn't 100% accurate as it doesn't replicate lab equipment exactly. So it, along with all other indicators is a relative thing. There are lots of indicatiors, such as published data, primer condition and other traditional signs, case head expansion and chrony data.
So - is the published load data infallible? No. Is going over the 'max' listed loads in a load book gauranteed high pressures? No. Hell, different load manuals often disagree with each other significantly Is there any way you as a reloader can be gauranteed a 100% safe load? No. Even factory loaded ammo can sometimes be too hot for a particular gun. There are no absolutes here, and all liability is solely your own. Common sense isn't really so 'common,' and you'll often come across cowboys at the range pushing extremely hot loads to try and push the envelope.
Do I go over max published load in load books? Occasionally, yes. But I do so at my own peril, I do not allow anyone else to shoot my loads, and sensible about it. I have many many data sources and inputs, I balance them all, and come to an end result that's a blend of them all. For what it's worth I've never had an incident (other than one ruptured primer that was a result of a defective bolt body and poorly fitted firing pin) all my brass has been good for many reloads.
As Gathouse alluded, experience is key here. There is NO WAY to exactly know your pressures. Even the Oehler ballistic lab isn't 100% accurate as it doesn't replicate lab equipment exactly. So it, along with all other indicators is a relative thing. There are lots of indicatiors, such as published data, primer condition and other traditional signs, case head expansion and chrony data.
So - is the published load data infallible? No. Is going over the 'max' listed loads in a load book gauranteed high pressures? No. Hell, different load manuals often disagree with each other significantly Is there any way you as a reloader can be gauranteed a 100% safe load? No. Even factory loaded ammo can sometimes be too hot for a particular gun. There are no absolutes here, and all liability is solely your own. Common sense isn't really so 'common,' and you'll often come across cowboys at the range pushing extremely hot loads to try and push the envelope.
Do I go over max published load in load books? Occasionally, yes. But I do so at my own peril, I do not allow anyone else to shoot my loads, and sensible about it. I have many many data sources and inputs, I balance them all, and come to an end result that's a blend of them all. For what it's worth I've never had an incident (other than one ruptured primer that was a result of a defective bolt body and poorly fitted firing pin) all my brass has been good for many reloads.
A ballistic engeneer,US Army retired, playing with a strain gauge and a couple of 30.06s said he didn't think there were any fast barrels,but there might be slow ones. Just a caution.
But for a hundred dollars,it's a cheap pressure gauge.
But for a hundred dollars,it's a cheap pressure gauge.
