shooting competitions help please.

There is a place

The Fclass section for factory rifles is the PERFECT place for beginners.

That said i'll explain what you probably know and have forgotten with all the years of exp. you have. As a first year its still fresh in whats left of my mind.

This was my first Official year with the O.R.A. , after sitting through the long range classes that they ran and the reloading course I got a chance this year to shoot at distances i'd never seen before and with people that had experience.

There are a lot of people there that are willing to coach and mentor new shooters. Although i've shot for years and have reloading experience i stil had a lot to learn because what i was doing was not decipline specific to F-class.

Off topic a bit her but relative, if you decided to get into car racing what would happen if I gave you a Ferrari and put you on the line next to Michael Schumacher? Would you expect to win ? NO. But if Michael ran races that you were allowed to compete in with a car you could actually handle and understand you,d get a chance to learn what makes a winning car win and what it takes to keep up, you would learn a new skill set specific to what your interests were for the sport.

Now take a new shooter/or even a shooter that's hunted or shot shorter distances, is it not safe to assume that this person being a reasonable person would not be disappointed to NOT win a match when he/she's now at 3-4 times the yardage with people that have been doing this for years.

This year I got an idea of what its like to shoot from different yardages alot farther than i had access to before. I got to talk to people that had experience with this and most were quit willing to coach or share their knowledge. I learned exactly how precise I need to reload to be competitive at 1000 yds now instead of bragging about nice groups at 100.
Factory F-class give anyone the opportunity to come out and learn and most of all HAVE FUN doing it. If your not having fun doing something they call that work.

When I came out this year I was a decent shooter with fairly good reloading skills. The O.R.A. gave me the chance to expand on that and get even better and this all started from an intro day run by Ric 2 summers ago.

To anyone reading this I'll say, come on out. bring what you have, bring a willingness to learn and have fun and don't expect to take over the world the first week. There is alot to learn and people there who will help you do this, most of the competitive shooters are great people that at one time had to learn all this too. Come out to have fun and you won't be disappointed.

Yes you can go out and buy all sorts of fancy shooting equipment but you don't need to , spend some time on the range and you,ll learn what you need and what suits your goals and you might just have some fun while you do it.

I'm looking forward to next season to add to what i've learned this year and with any luck I might be able to beat Bob with his factory Savage. ;)

Mike
 
Windborne 11
What makes you think that the savage is the advantage, maybe, just maybe there was a good shooter behind it that did his part that day.

The shooter winning comes down to choices, choosing what rifle to shoot, what caliber, what scope, the choice of how much wind is there and haw far do i correct, reading the mirage and making choices on what your see, hearing other shooters and choosing to believe on not what their results where from their choices and finally choosing when /how to pull the trigger. Maybe the guy/s with the Savages that day made better choices. Sone very nice decipline specific rifles where beaten by them maybe because of poor choices.

Mike.
 
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Mike, I think we can all agree the Savage in 6.5-.284 will have an advantage at long range over something like a .22-250 with a 1:14 twist.
The 6.5-.284 with high BC bullets does much better in the wind than just about any caliber out there regardless of factory class or full blown F(O). Therefore the margine of error on your wind call is going to be less than someone shooting something like a .308. While this might not be huge, a shot fired with a 6.5-.284 might catch the edge of the V or 5 ring while the .308 bullet will be firmly in the 4 ring.
With equipment being equal the skill (and sometimes luck) of the shooter is what wins the match. Trying to buy points is not in the spirit of the rules. We don't want to turn the F(M) class into a, "he who has the deepest pockets wins".
 
Mike, I think we can all agree the Savage in 6.5-.284 will have an advantage at long range over something like a .22-250 with a 1:14 twist.
The 6.5-.284 with high BC bullets does much better in the wind than just about any caliber out there regardless of factory class or full blown F(O). Therefore the margin of error on your wind call is going to be less than someone shooting something like a .308. While this might not be huge, a shot fired with a 6.5-.284 might catch the edge of the V or 5 ring while the .308 bullet will be firmly in the 4 ring.
With equipment being equal the skill (and sometimes luck) of the shooter is what wins the match. Trying to buy points is not in the spirit of the rules. We don't want to turn the F(M) class into a, "he who has the deepest pockets wins".

I agree with the first part of this Tom, the 6.5 definitely has the advantage on windy days for a beginner over most other calibers but in the hands of a beginning shooter against the ORA crew previously mentioned, Norm et all which I did shoot against it wouldn't matter what caliber or make of gun I could shoot, I am not in the game.

Trying to buy points and the deepest pocket part I do not agree with.

Prices as of today off Epps website:

Savage F/TR - $1414.00

Savage F 6.5 - $1498.00

Tikka T3 Tactical .223 -$ 1666.00

Tikka Super Varmint 6.5 x 55 - $ 1700.00

Would you not agree that in the hands of a new shooter that the Savage 6.5 is the better pick of the above?

Not looking for a fight, I just don't understand some of the logic posted by some folks on this thread about Savage and the 6.5 in particular.

Regards,
 
Your missing the spirit of my commets.
The idea of the class is to allow someone with NO F-class experience to come out with run of the mill scoped hunting rifle and LEARN WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN and have fun.
They're not supposed to win..... it's a journey that they take and it's part of the learning experience.
No one said it would be fair, laff, what is ? Its a stepping stone.
Part of the experience. The best part if you ask me. Once you have all the answers and win all the time are you still having fun ?

If someone was to come out and say I want nothing but wins we could just print up a list of all the best equipment a lottery could buy and hit them with a magic wand giving them all the knowledge and experience to beat the big boys.
If all you want it trophy's you can buy them cheaper than the ammo. The fun is learning how to win them.

M.

p.s.
the best rifle in the worst hands still won't win.
 
I agree with the first part of this Tom, the 6.5 definitely has the advantage on windy days for a beginner over most other calibers but in the hands of a beginning shooter against the ORA crew previously mentioned, Norm et all which I did shoot against it wouldn't matter what caliber or make of gun I could shoot, I am not in the game.

Trying to buy points and the deepest pocket part I do not agree with.

Prices as of today off Epps website:

Savage F/TR - $1414.00

Savage F 6.5 - $1498.00

Tikka T3 Tactical .223 -$ 1666.00

Tikka Super Varmint 6.5 x 55 - $ 1700.00

Would you not agree that in the hands of a new shooter that the Savage 6.5 is the better pick of the above?

Not looking for a fight, I just don't understand some of the logic posted by some folks on this thread about Savage and the 6.5 in particular.

Regards,

Bob, you can also buy a stevens 200 in .243 win for about $400. Or Epps has them in .223 for $300. Thats the kind of comparison that I'm talking about. Thats the kind of rifle that is going to compare with the typical rifle that your new FM shooter is going to drag out of his closet.
I am not trying to criticize you. I am simply implying that a new to the range
FM shooter, should not be intimidated by the equiptment that other people
in his class are shooting.
EVERY, including me, new L/R shooter who goes from 300 yards to 600 yards is going to be humbled. However that new Savage is going to make life a whole lot easier.
The important issue with FM class, is getting the shooter back out the 2nd and 3rd time. BEFORE he has to spend $2000.00
The 2G bill should be an option, not a requirement.
 
Point taken WB 11.

A new shooter as you suggest would get to give it a go with their varmint rig or whatever was in their closest at the practical session held by the ORA or at an Intro day and find out for themselves if the 2K investment is required or warranted.

Sorry to the original poster for the hijack of the thread.

Regards
 
Bob, I am not looking for a fight either but love a good debate:D
I looked at WSS web page and although I have not seen the T3 varmint, T3 Super Varmint and the T3 Tactical side by side it is hard to compare and justify the price difference. A plain Jane T3 at WSS cost $919, for $1500 you move up to the Super Varmint and the only difference I can see is a Picatinny rail and an extra sling swivel:confused: Then you step up to the T3 Tactical for $1922 and you get an adjustable cheek piece, CR-Mo action and barrel but manganese phosphatized finnish and a muzzle brake(maybe).

Are you paying for the Tikka name? Maybe. Will the Tikka shoot better than the Savage of the same caliber/bullet weight? You will have to prove that to me. I don't want to turn this into a Savage/Remington/Tikka debate. Each rifle will hold it's own, however when you throw the 6.5-.284 into the mix you are not on a level playing field anymore. I do remember Norm coming out with his Stevens 200 action with a Pac-Nor barrel and winning a few matches.

F(M) class is for the new guy or gal. The idea when this was tabled was two-fold 1)to get those people out that already have a rifle but don't have a place to shoot it and 2) to introduce people to long range shooting.

To be quite honest Bob, I don't see you or anyone else that is shooting F(M) now, to still be in that class after next year. You will have gained enough experience and knowledge to decide what class you will move up to, with either a new gun or at least a new barrel. I can't see you going out a spending another $1500 for a F(M) Savage when you can have a new barrel for $600.

Mike, sorry I have to disagree a bit here. If we want to attract and retain new shooters they have to have a goal. For some it is just coming out a burning ammo at long range, but they aren't the ones paying match fees. The ones that compete will find out soon enough that no matter how good they think they are, they are not going to beat the top dogs. The best they can maybe hope for is to win their class. Some will be tickled with a medallion or $20 of their entry fee back. If they are coming out to matches with no hopes of winning they will soon be discouraged.
 
Valid points all Tom.

Look forward to debating this in person someday with you.

Hopefully I can shoot F/M in 2009, if it turns out I get moved to F/O so be it. I will just have to try harder to keep up with Mr. Berger.:)
 
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AHHH,, there we go.... Hoping to win and Expecting to win are diffenet things,
The guy that goes out HOPING to win and doesn't goes home with a new respect for the ones that DID win. The guy that shows up and EXPECTS to win goes home mad and kicking him self or diss ing others.

Anyone that shows up brand new to something and expects to win against experienced talented competitors is a fool or just very un realistic.
EVERYONE has to learn sometime.
Even gretzky wasn't born wearing skates..... I don't think.

M.

BTW, wasn't the B.C. Lt. gov. match won with a 6 br ?
 
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