Shooting in sub-zero weather?

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texdores

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A while ago I invitied a shooting buddy to shoot on our range. It was -5 below, but the sun was shining.
I couldn't hit the target at 50m with my .45 SWC target loads. I had shot 3-gun NRA and ISSF for some years, so it wasn't that I lacked proper shooting techniques.
Does anyone know of any publications relating to cold-weather shooting?
Do you have any personal experience(regardless of caliber) with sub-zero shooting? I mostly shoot small-bore rifle during the winter. How does the cold affect .22amo- std. or hi-vel? What's your opinion?
 
The temperture of your ammo could have a factor. Another factor could be the effects of the coefficient of thermal expansion on your pistol. But I suspect you were shivering so much from the cold you could not hold the pistol on target.
 
Shooting in sub-zero temps.

The Wizard said:
The temperture of your ammo could have a factor. Another factor could be the effects of the coefficient of thermal expansion on your pistol. But I suspect you were shivering so much from the cold you could not hold the pistol on target.
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Yes, thank you. I have considered that amo is affected by drops in temperatures. I am also aware the the coefficient of linear expansion has an effect(btw its 0.000 011/per degree C for steel). But, how would it affect a 5" barrel, for example? Does the burning rate of powder vary directly with temperatures? And how?
I am sure the military have done some research on how temperature affect the performances of their fire arms. I like to know what they have found out.
As for shivering, I use either an electric or a gas-operated heater [positioned in front of me] to keep hands and body comfortable.
 
Going by possibly non-relevant shotgun experience, you can lose a few 100 feet per second in cold weather, when shooting shotgun out door. Say from 1300fps to 1250 or 1200fps. Not a big drop, but enough to mess up leads and swings if you're not watching for it.

If the same drop in velocity holds true for a 820fps 230gr .45acp, you could see a substantial bullet drop at 25 yards.

How does the cold affect .22amo- std. or hi-vel?
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Enough that most target .22rf makers have "cold weather" ammo, even if its just a change of the bullet lube. Lapua "Biathalon" and "Polar" comes to mind.
 
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Range shooting in cold conditions? First thing that comes to mind is the application of Helly Hanson thermal 2 piece underwear! And to top off the whole clothing thing...you just can't beat a nice warm fur hat. Now the gun...ensure it's degreased and if you feel you hafta run lube, go with a touch of powdered graphite. Ammo? I keep all my ammo for range use in the truck where it's warm. The stuff I use at the bench gets used up quick enough that it doesn't really get too cold. I just grab more from the truck when I run out. Oh, one more thing...check your magazines. If they are lubed and at all gummy they'll play havoc with your range time. Stay warm & enjoy...
 
Funny. I shoot frequently in the winter(more than in the summer!) when it's well below -20. I think the coldest day last January was below -35. I also find I shoot better groups! Loading ammo and manipulating the firearm is interesting though.
 
I've shot regularly at 5 below (and that is FARENHEIT I'm talking) and it IS very cold, but the great thing about shooting on the range in cold weather is that there's very little in the way of neighbours.

Back in the late '80s and very early 90's, me and a buddy used to shoot at Stittsville range every single Saturday morning in the middle of winter with our Norc Norc AK47's and FN L1A1's, naturally outfitted with their 30 and 20 round mags, and with inexpensive ball ammo, we would occasionally WAIL away as fast as we could pull the trigger until the mag was empty.

Middle of winter was the only time we could do this w/o upsetting other shooters on the line, because we were the only ones there! :p

Believe it or not, we actually got pretty proficient at rapid fire shooting (about 2 rounds a second would be as fast as you could shoot with a L1A1 and still be reasonably accurate. But that wasn't with a Kim Kampbell 5 round magazine, so there was more than a couple seconds of shooting enjoyment involved).

But like Ollie sez, loading up the mags tends to be a little difficult if your fingers are cold. Frequent trips to a running vehicle with the heater on full tilt (to load mags and just get some feeling back into the fingers) was normal.

Handguns though, yeah, it was even more difficult.
 
Extreme cold REALLY affects .22 ammunition. Velocity drops right down, combustion is incomplete, bore needs to be brushed every 5-10 shots or accuracy becomes non-existant. You can watch the bullet through your scope. I'm referring to -40, -45.
-5 isn't all that cold, but it would be interesting to try different ammunition.
Incidentally, there are some other possible concerns at extremely cold temperatures - double base powders may become unstable and dangerous; stainless steel may become brittle.
 
Speaking of low temp lube, I have had good results in northern MB with "gunslick" graphite grease, or hoppes gun grease. Just a light *LIGHT* coat will do the job.
 
I had to qualify on the range with the hi-power in -25 (-40 windchill) and the only problem I had was the numbing of my hands/fingers and the frost forming on my eyelashes....still shot marksman though. I heard that the old smg sterling was one of the better weapons systems in the cold and I do know that the Canadian Rangers still use the Lee-Enfield for their arctic ops.
 
Thank you everyone for your valuable input .
I just noticed in the Jan. '07 issue of Visier (International Firearms Journal), that top biathlon athletes have the opportunity to have their rifle and ammo tested in temperatures ranging from 0 to minus 25 degress Centigrade at the Lapua Schoenebeck range in Germany. If you like to make an appointment call the Lapua Service Center (03928) 729-100 or -143. In the middle of summer yet! Up to now this kind of testing facility was only available to the military.

I shall keep you informed of any results if and when they are published in Visier. Hope you all have a peaceful and merry Christmas. Silent Mind, Holy Mind.
 
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My trick when I had to do this was to wear thin thermal glove liners, they were made by Survival Aids, I have no idea if they're still in business or still make them but they were popular in the Army. They were great because they were thin enough that if I had to operate equipment, like cocking the slide of a Hi-Power I could take my gloves off without my hands getting cold.

It was totally impossible to #### a Hi-Power while wearing combat gloves, especially if they were wet. We were taught to #### them by whacking them against the corner of a wall, but it was so ridiculously unsafe and stupid to do that, those liners let me do it properly.
 
If all these variables exist for cold weather shooting what would be more reliable for sub zero shooting, a revolver or a semi-auto?
bigbull
 
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