Shooting large calibre Rifles, over 40 cal.

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buckbrushoutdoors

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I've been toying with idea of buying a rifle in a big bore cartridge. I often see 416rems or 404s, 458 wins for sale and have always been curious about recoil on them. Having never shot anything larger than a 375h&h 300 rum, 45-70 recoiling rifles. I have shot the following with no adverse effects or flinching. I know looking at recoil charts they seem to get very high as calibre increases in size. My question is what is a mild recoil rifle in a big bore cartridge 40 cal and up? I was thinking a 458 win would be a good starting point but the 416rem seems to be quite available.
 
If you have shot the 300 RUM with heavy 200 gn loads and find it manageable the bigger stuff won't bother you at all. The nice thing about the 458 WM is that when you get bored with it you can then chamber it out to the 458 Lott, and when you get bored with that you can then chamber it out to the 450 Ackley, and when you get bored with that you can then chamber it out to 458 RUM (G&A long).................Now if you want a very pleasant big bore that kills very well you may consider a 416 Taylor, I used this cartridge to take my first Cape buff. It is super efficient and runs through any 300 WM length action and with the plethora of new 416 bullets it is a real winner. Cases are a breeze as any 375 H&H case, 338 WM or 458 WM can be used to make Taylor brass. I got an honest 2420 fps with mine in a 23" barrel using 410 gn Hornady softs and solids and shot these loads in 45 degree heat in Zim with no issues what-so-ever. If you start with a long action like a 700 Rem or new Win mod 70 or an old Sako you could then ream it out to 416 Rem after the Taylor and a 416 RUM after that if you so chose..........If a short action is of interest to you there is another whole set of possibilities.........416 X 350 RM, 416 WSM, and a 458 WSM.........these 3 are super efficient and will give ballistics way beyond what you may think possible.
 
Lots of great info there, thank you. The big stuff is new to me and don't know many people that have it or use it. I'm not bothered by recoil, the sooner you except it the sooner you aren't bothered by it. But like I said don't know what to expect when stepping up to the real big stuff. I was thinking a nice winchester in 458 or 416 would be a great carry hunting rifle for pi$$in around with moose and bears in northern BC
 
Compared to a .375, plan for double the recoil with the big .416s and .458s with full power loads. Its certainly do-able, but is in a different league.

If you just want to pop some little bitty moose and bears, the .458 Win with the 350 grain TSX is worth a look. Recoil is down into the .375 range, trajectory is similar, and killing power is surprisingly close to the heavier .458 bullets even on buffalo. It kills wild pigs rather well too.
 
If you want the big bore with big bullet hitting power without the recoil you should look at the 450 Bushmaster, 458 SOCOM and 50 Beowulf. All are available in semi auto platforms to further reduce the recoil and are more than capable of taking any game in North America.
 
Brian46, Are there any semi auto rifles chambered for those that are available and not restricted in Canada?

I run 350 Barnes TSX in my two 458wm's and 458 Lott, flat shooting, mild recoil, great performance and very little if any wasted meat.
 
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A .458 is lots of fun, particularly if you're a handloader, and it is an intelligent choice for someone wishing to break into the big bore arena. I'm quite fond of the .416 Rigby, but it offers little that isn't available from one of the big case .375s; I'm thinking here more of the .375 Ultra and the .378 Weatherby when loaded with heavy bullets. As had been said by others, the .458 can be improved upon, but for dangerous game those ballistics (500 @ 2100) were considered near perfect in the older, longer, nitro express cartridges, and for a rifle of this class, the .458 tends to be on the mild side compared to those which burn closer to 100 grs of powder.

Comparatively mild recoil, is particularly the case if you shoot factory ammo which tends to be loaded more like a hot .45/70. I chronographed some factory 500 gr Federal Safaris when I first got my M-70 and they only averaged 1900 fps, where my 500 gr handloads broke 2100 from my 21" barrel. Dropping bullet weight a bit lets you gain a bit more velocity without appreciable loss of performance. Even a modest drop to 480 grs clocks 2200 when I loaded up some hard cast WFNs, so 2250 isn't out of the question with 450s provided you can find some that Dogleg hasn't bought up.

The only downside of shooting big bores is that the cost of bullets is becoming a bit tedious, but this is where you can benefit from loading cast bullets. The performance envelope of the .458 lends itself quite nicely to cast bullet shooting, whether you shoot full powered loads or reduced. With the aforementioned 480 gr WFNs, loaded over 30 grs of 2400 for 1300 fps is fun shooting, and the load is suitable for either small or medium sized game.
 
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Boomer said:
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The only downside of shooting big bores is that the cost of bullets is becoming a bit tedious, but this is where you can benefit from loading cast bullets. The performance envelope of the .458 lends itself quite nicely to cast bullet shooting, whether you shoot full powered loads or reduced. With the aforementioned 480 gr WFNs, loaded over 30 grs of 2400 for 1300 fps is fun shooting, and the load is suitable for either small or medium sized game.
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This right here is why I would recommend a 458 bore, whichever chambering you decide to choose. There are so many 458 cast lead bullets and bullet moulds out there( way more than .416) that you will be able to enjoy your shoulder cannon a whole lot more, more often, for less money spent. Then, when required, buy some premiums and throttle it up.
 
MaxKW said:
Brian46, Are there any semi auto rifles chambered for those that are available and not restricted in Canada?

I run 350 Barnes TSX in my two 458wm's and 458 Lott, flat shooting, mild recoil, great performance and very little if any wasted meat.
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I checked out the Wiki listing for the 416 taylor....and they note that guys are putting 416 Taylor barrels on the Browning Bar 338 WM.....since i own one of those i found it interesting.

Wonder who in canada could do the barrel work for that...and a muzzle break/thread protector....????????????????????????????????
 
I certainly don't have the big bore experience that some members have, but I have had a few: (416 ruger, 416 Rigby, 458wm, 450Ackley magnum). Of the bunch, I found the Rigby to be the least pleasant of the bunch, but my Ackley was ported. I agree about the 458 stuff being a better choice than the 416 especially here in NA.

I no longer have any of them, but am collecting parts for a compact 458x2" which I think will be perfect for me.
 
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A 2" 458 would be great fun and perfect for short range hunting. I've played with a lot and settled on the 458 wm. Big bore power. Cast and jacketed and solid bullets. Good case life. Fairly mild recoil when loaded soft.briskly fun when loaded heavy. I suggest shooting without a scope because over 40 cal they step up a serious notch in recoil.
I think a 416 Taylor will be next on the list
 
I had a 505 Gibbs for a while. I did not find the recoil unpleasant and it was quite manageable. It was also quite accurate. Now the cost of components, that might be the real shocker!!!
 
Component cost is not a big factor when it comes to a big bore for me... When you have a typical .30 cal rifle you still dump 25+\- grains of powder in the case and a decent hunting bullet will run around .50c each... With a big boomer you burn 4x as much powder and the bullet's are around $1-$2ea but not many people except the true aficionados will take a .416 or 505 to the range and send 20+ rounds down range in a trip... Not without a lead sled or another means of recoil control...

I greatly prefer shooting the .375's and my Rigby over most magnum .30's tho, I compare the recoil in large bore rifles more like having a heavy medicine ball thrown at you hard and fast where as most typical obnoxious hunting .30's are more akin to being punched in the shoulder by someone who makes a living doing it.



I have yet to shoot a .458 American but I would assume it would be a very interesting choice for a short range large North American game rifle, fitting in a long action rifle and making cases from standard .300wm makes it hard to ignore.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=341
 
Gibbs505 said:
I had a 505 Gibbs for a while. I did not find the recoil unpleasant and it was quite manageable. It was also quite accurate. Now the cost of components, that might be the real shocker!!!
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I shot a 500 Jeffery last weekend and I was instantly in love. Then I did some research for the cost of brass(and availability) and I think I'm gonna have to stick with my 458's until I'm in a higher pay grade!

I would like to have a battery of big bores including 375 H&H, 404 Jeffery, 458 lott, and 500 Jeffery.
Working on the 375 next.
 
Hotwheels81 said:
Component cost is not a big factor when it comes to a big bore for me... When you have a typical .30 cal rifle you still dump 25+\- grains of powder in the case and a decent hunting bullet will run around .50c each... With a big boomer you burn 4x as much powder and the bullet's are around $1-$2ea but not many people except the true aficionados will take a .416 or 505 to the range and send 20+ rounds down range in a trip... Not without a lead sled or another means of recoil control...

I greatly prefer shooting the .375's and my Rigby over most magnum .30's tho, I compare the recoil in large bore rifles more like having a heavy medicine ball thrown at you hard and fast where as most typical obnoxious hunting .30's are more akin to being punched in the shoulder by someone who makes a living doing it.



I have yet to shoot a .458 American but I would assume it would be a very interesting choice for a short range large North American game rifle, fitting in a long action rifle and making cases from standard .300wm makes it hard to ignore.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=341
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The 458 American( aka 458-2") will easily fit into a short action making it even more versatile. If you could get a reamer custom made with a shorter throat to fit the Speer 350's it would make for an awesome short, handy, brush bolt gun.
If you built it on a long action, might as well go 458 win mag. The win can be downloaded to the 458 American speeds really easily with powders like IMR4198 and IMR3031. I've even downloaded mine to 45-70 speeds with great success, so to me the 458wm makes a little more sense.
 
blueoval56 said:
The 458 American( aka 458-2") will easily fit into a short action making it even more versatile. If you could get a reamer custom made with a shorter throat to fit the Speer 350's it would make for an awesome short, handy, brush bolt gun.
If you built it on a long action, might as well go 458 win mag. The win can be downloaded to the 458 American speeds really easily with powders like IMR4198 and IMR3031. I've even downloaded mine to 45-70 speeds with great success, so to me the 458wm makes a little more sense.
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Interesting.... The one and only .458 American I have fondled was but on a Mauser action... I do recall reading of a fellow who had a Winchester built for the cartridge long ago as a yukon pack rifle as well... Would compliment a .40-08 sidearm as being among the 2 most difficult boomers to find ammo for in the middle of nowhere :)
 
nowarningshot said:
I checked out the Wiki listing for the 416 taylor....and they note that guys are putting 416 Taylor barrels on the Browning Bar 338 WM.....since i own one of those i found it interesting.

Wonder who in canada could do the barrel work for that...and a muzzle break/thread protector....????????????????????????????????
Click to expand...

The Bar has also been done in .458 Win as were a batch of custom built M1 Garands. Would love to have either one.

Handloading with cast boolits and proper load work can yield great results in loads ranging from sub-sonic plinkers to heavy game dumpers. I've shot piles of .458 ammo over the years, and most have been with cast to cut costs and to increase the pleasure of pushing out many projectiles per shootin' session.;)
 
Big bores are not really as bad for recoil as most would believe. Some lighter rifles in smaller chamberings kick pretty good also.
Someone mentioned the 416 Taylor. This is a good one. I have the reamer and built two of them a few years ago. In an 8-1/2 lb rifle it is not bad at all.
You make brass from 458 Win, one pass thru the sizing die and load.

I currently have a 416 Remington in a Rem 700 Custom Shop rifle.
With the McMillan stock it's less than 8lbs. Shooting it off hand is not problematic.
Shooting it off the bench will be a whole other adventure...:)
Here's a video of my oldest son shooting 400gr Federal loads.

http://youtu.be/Jl0Y1WPdK00
 
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