shooting LEVERevolution ammo in 45-60?

JTF#

JTF#

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 99.6%
222   1   0
Location
Ontario
i was going to pick up some 45-70 loaded ammo just for the cases to cut down to 45-60 and i noticed the LEVERevolution bullets from hornady are only 325g. do you think it would be safe to shoot these bullets with the same charge weight as the 292g cast bullets that it lists in the reloading manual? they state for 4198 powder 26-29 grains. would this be a safe load to try? 29 grains with a 325g jacketed bullet?

my gun is new not an original btw!
 
Last edited:
Well, this is only my own opinion & will probably get blasted for it from the "but... but my rifle is new and better than the old ones". And I am assuming you are talking a "toggle action" and not a single shot... if your using a single shot carry on with what your planning.

If it's a toggle action it is still an 1873 design with all the shortfalls of the originals. Although built with new, better steel, and it is stamped with all sorts of new proof test marks signifying it won't burst or explode in your hand, the toggle still absorbs the force if you over extend the design engineering.
I own 4 or 5 toggle guns myself, I don't over- stress them and have never had a problem with any of them, however I have had several in my shop that have been severly damaged at the rear pin area by stout loads that wouldn't be a problem in ant other action. A couple have been relegated to "boat anchor" status. Problems with others include broken toggles, broken/bent rear pins, deformed rear pin holes. In the two boat anchor guns the frame stretched enough that the headspace was a measured 45 & 48 thou.

Know doubt there will be some hollering that they shoot magnum elephant loads in their toggle guns all the time. they are right as some guns come out of the factory with tight enough tolerances at the rear toggle boss in the frame that the gun works very well beyond its original design parameters, if you have one of these guns, consider yourself lucky & good to go. Most, however, don't realize they have high pin boss gaps until it's too late.

Personally, the 325 gr bullet wouldn't worry me...as long as the velocity was kept to original b/p loads (1300 fps in my books) for that caliber. My experience won't allow me to hotrod any toggle gun.
 
You're talking about increasing projectile weight by more than 11%. That's too much imo.
That's like using load data for a 150gr .308 but using a 168gr bullet instead.
Going from say a 178gr data to a 180gr bullet (something I've done in .308" rifles) is only about a 1% increase. I'd be willing to go to maybe 2-3% heavier for load data but 11% is way too much for me.
I'd try to find load data for a 325gr (+/- 3%) bullet.
 
Last edited:
you sound new to reloading I hope you realize that the heavier the bullet the less powder you use also a jacketed bullet will be harder than a cast lead bullet causing more friction and more pressure.
 
Also be aware that Leverevolution brass/bullets are not the same as what you would normally find for the 45-70 Govt. The proprietary case is shorter and the FTX bullets have their crimping groove set further back than normal to compensate for the shorter case but still achieve average OAL. Same applies to all calibers in Leverevolution so you need to be aware of that. And as mentioned above don't go thinking that you can sub a heavier bullet for a lighter bullet recipe. Sure, it will work once, but that may be all. Stick to published loads from reliable sources and don't guess.
dB
 
the big problem I have is the book only gives data for cast bullets. and only 292g with 4198. they go to the 330g bullet but no listing for 4198.

so a cast bullet with the same weight as a jacketed bullet could I use the same charge?

I guess I wont use the bullets but brass is getting so rare I have to buy the loaded ammo just the get the cases to cut down. shame to throw out them fancy bullets.
 
JTF# said:
the big problem I have is the book only gives data for cast bullets. and only 292g with 4198. they go to the 330g bullet but no listing for 4198.

so a cast bullet with the same weight as a jacketed bullet could I use the same charge?

I guess I wont use the bullets but brass is getting so rare I have to buy the loaded ammo just the get the cases to cut down. shame to throw out them fancy bullets.
Click to expand...

Why don't you buy some Remington 300gr. hollowpoint factory loads, if your going to do that. The 25gr charge of IMR4198 would be fine with the 300 grain bullets.
An added complication of using the leverevolution bullets is that they require a shorter case due to their ogive being longer, and Win 76's (and 73's) are sensitive to cartridge oal. You would probably have to shorten them to about 1.8" rathr than the standard 1.89" length for 45-60 to get them to cycle.
 
JTF# said:
so a cast bullet with the same weight as a jacketed bullet could I use the same charge?
Click to expand...
I've been doing that for years now and it's never lead me wrong. Start low and work up and you're good to go.
Since data for cast lead bullets are generally lower velocity/pressure they work great for reduced recoil loads with jacketed bullets.

Just don't swap a solid copper bullet in there instead of a lead core/copper jacketed as they sometimes jack the pressure up and sometimes lower it; really depends on the brand of bullet and your rifle.

You could also order some cast bullets from someplace like The Bullet Barn as it's a less expensive way to shoot anyway. If it's a new rifle you shouldn't have to worry about getting custom sized bullets for an old/worn barrel as it should be pretty much right on nominal diameter.
*edit*
Just checked and TBB doesn't have 300gr for a .45 rifle. They start at 350gr. Don't happen to have load data for 350gr cast, do you? Could be worth trying out. That or find someone who casts 300gr bullets. My lightest mould for my .45-70 is 340gr so I'm not much help.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom