Shooting M1 Garand 500m for first time

flying pig

flying pig

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Sorry if I put this in the wrong spot but not sure where it was supposed to go?

Anyway, I tried shooting my M1 500m (approx) for the first time last night, was the first time I have shot any rifle this far yet. I was shooting from prone using standard sling and 150g federal powershok.

My question is that I can group really tight side to side but its spread about 3x as wide on the vertical. I was grouping probably 6" horizontally and about 18" vertically.

Anyone able to analyze what I'm doing wrong without seeing me shoot? I've read shoot to live. From what I read it makes me think that my trigger control must be good but maybe body position isn't right or I'm not yet grasping the whole sight picture concept yet?

Anyone have any suggestions that may help me next time? I have no training at all, what I have learned has been from CGNer's and from books and videos.

Thanks again!
 
I've only had it for a few months and only shot it twice. 100m is the same pattern. Also my No4 Lee Enfields are the same pattern at both 100 and 200. That's why I'm positive its me not the rifles.

Is there somewhere else I should have posted this?

Next time i may take a camera with me and get my shooting buddy to take pics of my positioning.
 
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308TRshooter said:
It could be your breathing, placement of the stock in your shoulder, or possibly your sight picture could be inconsistent. Hope this helps.
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Pretty sure your right,

Make sure your at your Natural Point of aim, and breathing is correct. I find those affect my groups vertically the most. As for the sight picture, I find if I have to think about it, it's wrong.

6" wide at 500m is pretty damn good if you can tighten those up top to bottom.
 
6" wide at 500m with an M-1 is absolutely outstanding. Any M-1 that will hold 2 moa is a good one. That would translate to close to a foot at that distance. Any wind?
The vertical spread might result from sight alignment with the post front sight. Holding consistant elevation can be tricky.
 
flying pig said:
Sorry if I put this in the wrong spot but not sure where it was supposed to go?

Anyway, I tried shooting my M1 500m (approx) for the first time last night, was the first time I have shot any rifle this far yet. I was shooting from prone using standard sling and 150g federal powershok.

My question is that I can group really tight side to side but its spread about 3x as wide on the vertical. I was grouping probably 6" horizontally and about 18" vertically.

Anyone able to analyze what I'm doing wrong without seeing me shoot? I've read shoot to live. From what I read it makes me think that my trigger control must be good but maybe body position isn't right or I'm not yet grasping the whole sight picture concept yet?

Anyone have any suggestions that may help me next time? I have no training at all, what I have learned has been from CGNer's and from books and videos.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

You may be flinching, anticipating the recoil and tensing up. There is an easy test to see if you flinch. Have someone load or not load a round for you without you seeing. Then when in prone and ready, balance a penny (oh, I guess a nickel today) on the stock. If the penny falls off when you squeeze the trigger and nothing fires (no round in the chamber) you are flinching. Do about a dozen or so with and without a round in the chamber (which you don't know about).
 
The more I learn, the less I realize I know. Someone on this forum reminded me that for iron sights, the best aiming mark is not the black but the target itself. Click click click to compensate to centre as you take up a hold aim and squeeze on the CORNER of the 4x4 frame. The corner is a sharp edge with white on 2 planes, unlike the aiming mark which will only give you a visual white space on one plane.

But off your elbows with a sling, that is not bad shooting. The other fellows have pretty much offered the other obvious faults to investigate.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
The more I learn, the less I realize I know. Someone on this forum reminded me that for iron sights, the best aiming mark is not the black but the target itself. Click click click to compensate to centre as you take up a hold aim and squeeze on the CORNER of the 4x4 frame. The corner is a sharp edge with white on 2 planes, unlike the aiming mark which will only give you a visual white space on one plane.

But off your elbows with a sling, that is not bad shooting. The other fellows have pretty much offered the other obvious faults to investigate.
Click to expand...

You crank in about two minutes of windage for this method. We were being taught this over 50 years ago by people who really knew how to use the SMLE and the Lee Enfield.

One thing to remember is tht the M1 Garand was an Infantry rifle, mass produced to arm ordinary men. It was not designed as a target rifle, but the U.S. Army Advanced Marksmanship Unit, (AMU) experimented with different methods of making it more accurate.

When the Garand replace the Springfield 03, there was great contriversy about the accuracy of the Garand being poor compared to the Springfield. Ten years later, not too many Springfields were being used on the target ranges. The M1 Garands were selected, tuned and bedded for maximum accuracy, and were known as "National Match" models.

The same contriversy was made when the M14 replaced the Garand, but it took less time to make a National Match version of the M14 because of it's similarity to the Garand.
 
Just some advice about Federal Premium ammunition in .30-06. The M1 Garand was designed to shoot a 150 gr bullet at 2,740 fps +/-. A few years back I chronoed Federal Premium out of my Garand and chronoed 3,100 fps. Contant use of federal premium ammunition can and will damage your op rod. Believe me, they are not cheap when you eventually find one.

Also Brownells sells a very nice National Match front site, which is excellent for long range shooting.
 
Friend you got to find safe reloads first.
Try this link to NRA recommended loads:

h ttp://masterpostemple.bravepages.com/M1load.htm

Your present factory ammunition at 2910 fps is too hot for your rifle IMO.
The Garand was first designed in 1936 and one has to be careful what you feed it.
 
I didn't know that guys thanks. I had previously put up a thread about what to shoot in it for now because I'm not reloading just yet. I thought the federal stuff was in the safe gas pressure range and because I liked how it shot out of my Lee Enfields I chose it. Maybe I better get on buying reloading equipment and shoot Hornady's match stuff for now.

I was doing pretty well with the penny trick. I'll keep practicing it as much as I can and see if that helps. I'll try and remember to close my eyes and re open them before I shoot and see if I stay on target. Thanks for the advice everyone!
 
How easy are the adjustable gas plugs to use properly? Could going that route safely tide me over until I get set up (hopefully later this summer)? If not I can just leave this rifle alone until I have reloading gear and a bit of experience with loading, I have other rifles I can shoot and really don't want to wreck this one, its my favorite!
 
Tape on the stock so your check can feel the edge of the tape or so that your hand will feel the edge.

Or be methodical in the way your trigger hand is placed and the contact between the hand with cheek, or chin, as the case maybe, with your physic and position.
 
you could try finding the perfect spot on the stock for your eye relief and cheek weld, then marking where you place your cheekbone with a small piece of tape....
EDIT: damn, diopter beat me to it...
 
Horizontal Stringing can often be your pulse. Especially if you've been running or walking then shooting. It also means you should look ast your left hand to see if you're over extending. Over extending the left arm often results in horizontal stringing.

That ammo is too hot for your fifle IMHO...


a. the position and hold must be firm enough to support the rifle,
b. the firer must have natural alignment to the target, without any physical effort,

c. sight alignment, or "aiming" must be correct, and​


d. the shot release and follow through must not disturb the position.​
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
The more I learn, the less I realize I know. Someone on this forum reminded me that for iron sights, the best aiming mark is not the black but the target itself. Click click click to compensate to centre as you take up a hold aim and squeeze on the CORNER of the 4x4 frame. The corner is a sharp edge with white on 2 planes, unlike the aiming mark which will only give you a visual white space on one plane.

But off your elbows with a sling, that is not bad shooting. The other fellows have pretty much offered the other obvious faults to investigate.
Click to expand...

This is a good point. I have been using bold diamonds for the same reason. I find it really easy to put the sight on the bottom tip of the diamond, and doing it this way you also get to keep a centered windage position.
 
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