Shooting on the move or not, that is the question. I can shoot on the move as I walk to the next targets. Or I can stand still and get A/A all the time at 12 yards or less and run to the next target (I shoot in production). Any opinions on this, to shoot on the move or not to shoot on the move. Shooting on the move gets a lot of ooh's and aah's but is it really worth it, all things considered?
shooting on the move
- Thread starter hal1955
- Start date
Depends on your target presentation. since you can't move at 1200 FPS it is better to shoot a group of targets from one spot. However (ain't there always a however) if movement allows you to see new targets as you move, then you have to decide if moving is going to be quicker. an example would be a line of targets where a new target becomed visible as you move forward. in this case to stop, shot, move, stop, shot would take longer then moving and shooting. a very simple example perhaps but i hope it gets the idea across.
It's not about seeing the next target, it's not about the whole 1200 fps thing (which always makes me laugh, since it has nothing to do with the issue). It deals with the fact that you are not wasting time standing still, you're chewing up stage distance which you'll have to cover anyway. As far as people saying I can run at full speed when not shooting, sure, there's nothing stopping you from doing it while you're not shooting. The point is you can stand still while shooting or you can be moving while shooting, what happens after you're done shooting is up to you. The fact that you are shooting slower while moving is irrelevant, because the fact that you're moving (through the area you'd have to cover anyway) means that time is saved. The increase in split times is a smaller loss than the gain of the loss of the movement time.
My rule of thumb is this: IF you can hit the targets while moving AND if you have to move in that direction ANYWAY after you shoot , then it's always worth shooting on the move, you will always gain on time, the relative speed of the bullet flying vs the speed at which you run is totally irrelevant, it's not about that. It's about minimizing time when you're stopped, and maximizing multi-tasking, in this case time which you have to take up anyway while shooting is ALSO used traveling over distance which you have to travel anyway.
This is exactly the same reason why, if you can, you should always take a step in the direction you're going to have to go in, while you draw - that 1s+ of draw time is wasted, you have to take it, but if you take a step while doing it, even if you have to stop after that one step, well, that's 1 yard which you won't have to cover after you shoot your first target(s)... - that time saved is FREE.
My rule of thumb is this: IF you can hit the targets while moving AND if you have to move in that direction ANYWAY after you shoot , then it's always worth shooting on the move, you will always gain on time, the relative speed of the bullet flying vs the speed at which you run is totally irrelevant, it's not about that. It's about minimizing time when you're stopped, and maximizing multi-tasking, in this case time which you have to take up anyway while shooting is ALSO used traveling over distance which you have to travel anyway.
This is exactly the same reason why, if you can, you should always take a step in the direction you're going to have to go in, while you draw - that 1s+ of draw time is wasted, you have to take it, but if you take a step while doing it, even if you have to stop after that one step, well, that's 1 yard which you won't have to cover after you shoot your first target(s)... - that time saved is FREE.
omen said:
Bingo!. Looked at another way; you can expect to add two seconds minimum for every time you start and stop in a stage.
As long as you are covering real estate while engaging targets....accurately....then you are realizing an advantage. The trick is to know at what level of difficulty a target or target array is better shot from a stationary position.
relliott said:
Yup... hahaha... learned that at RussellMania this year... shooting steel at 20m on the move - not so much!
The distance at which this makes sense is different for everyone, based on their level of experience/skill/practice/etc, and the direction of the movement will also be a variable in that equation (towards, away, sideways, etc). But this is one of those things which you need to practice and try, by yourself, preferably with a timer, so you can see how it works FOR YOU!
Having ROed Brodie McIntosh on a 56 round stage the week before full cap mags were banned here in OZ, I've come to believe the trick is to be able to stop momentarily to fire your shots then be on the move again instantly, with no hesitation or need to find sights. Brodie would run flatout to the place he wanted to be, both feet would touch the ground, the gun would fire pretty much simultaneously and he would be moving again. By the end of the stage that included around 150 metres of running, I was weazing and puffing as I gave ULASC. He was pretty much all As and the fastest time on the day.
As he had placed third in Open at the SA world shoot, I thought his technique was worth watching. Unfortunately I'm not that fast, smooth or stable. *sigh*
As he had placed third in Open at the SA world shoot, I thought his technique was worth watching. Unfortunately I'm not that fast, smooth or stable. *sigh*
I agree w/ relliot & omen. I'm not a gm or a m class shooter, but my overall performance has improved when I realized, hey, I can move and shoot at the same time. now, i'm not moving full speed & pulling off A's, but i engage some targets while on the go. for me, not at 17 yards, but between 1 - 10 yards, depending on how visible or positioning of the targets.
definately have to get more practise on this. you'll be more competitive & have more fun shoot'n the stage !
definately have to get more practise on this. you'll be more competitive & have more fun shoot'n the stage !
hal1955, a good way to 'practice' shooting on the move is to take a 1/2 full bottle of water, turn it upside down, and hold it up like it is your pistol. Gently walk around and 'sight' through the bottle. You'll see the water bouncing all over the place.
With practice you should be able to move and the water will barely move. The trick is to roll your feet carefully (heel to toe) and not step abruptly.
I can't take credit for this drill, I saw it on a video.
Shoot on the move
With practice you should be able to move and the water will barely move. The trick is to roll your feet carefully (heel to toe) and not step abruptly.
I can't take credit for this drill, I saw it on a video.
Shoot on the move
\kent23 said:hal1955, a good way to 'practice' shooting on the move is to take a 1/2 full bottle of water, turn it upside down, and hold it up like it is your pistol. Gently walk around and 'sight' through the bottle. You'll see the water bouncing all over the place.
With practice you should be able to move and the water will barely move. The trick is to roll your feet carefully (heel to toe) and not step abruptly.
I can't take credit for this drill, I saw it on a video.
Shoot on the move
This works really well for me when I freeze the water first ;-)
or just do it with a gun, in your basement, pointing at some point on a distant wall, squeezing the trigger (ok, a DA gun comes in handy plus it practices the DA pull)... Without the recoil, you can see the movement of the sights as you move.
I find the water bottle idea great for when you don't have your toy/can't really use it, but if you can, use the real thing...
plus it practices the DA pull)... Without the recoil, you can see the movement of the sights as you move. I find the water bottle idea great for when you don't have your toy/can't really use it, but if you can, use the real thing...
Radagast said:
He probably used a technique called a "rolling stop," which preserves momentum when you plant your feet. Basically, the upper body is kept moving through the path of action as the feet plant just long enough to get the shots off, and then you let your momentum carry you out of the position and essentially "fall" out of the shooting stance and continue on your merry way. It saves a lot of time and though it works for everyone, guys with small frames just have less mass to accelerate and decelerate so anything with planted feet tends to work better for them....relative to the bigger dudes.......um....like me. Simple physics. So I shoot and move when I can. roll through when I can't, and plant solid when I absolutely have no choice.
I don't know Brodie or what he looks like, but I'm guessing he weighs a little under 200 lbs?
You are getting some great advice from some good shooters.
The only advice will add is practice.
Dry fire go to the range and practice. When you are at a match watch some of the top shooters what the do on a stage. Do not be afraid to go up and ask them questions ( just make shore they are not about to go shoot the stage ).
In my opinion dry fire in you basement or in a room with the windows covered is the best way to watch you sights while moving.
The only advice will add is practice.
Dry fire go to the range and practice. When you are at a match watch some of the top shooters what the do on a stage. Do not be afraid to go up and ask them questions ( just make shore they are not about to go shoot the stage ).
In my opinion dry fire in you basement or in a room with the windows covered is the best way to watch you sights while moving.
pfft do it in your back yard for all to see! (kidding).
shooting on the move takes a lot of practice. you will likely find that shooting while going backwards is the easiest. Number 1 because most people start shooting at the target sooner when going backward, hence they get better hits, but also because when you are stepping back, you are naturally landing on your toes, not your heals, and get less of an impact shock in your step. Keep your knees bent (in either direction and going side to side), and try to let your upper body float level, taking all the movement in your knees. also keep your feet closer together, almost like you were walking on a balance beam. the wider your stance the more side to side movement you'll see. start off stepping heel to toe for distance, and taking those steps fast, then start taking longer strides, but never so long as you'd normally take when running or walking fast.
shooting on the move takes a lot of practice. you will likely find that shooting while going backwards is the easiest. Number 1 because most people start shooting at the target sooner when going backward, hence they get better hits, but also because when you are stepping back, you are naturally landing on your toes, not your heals, and get less of an impact shock in your step. Keep your knees bent (in either direction and going side to side), and try to let your upper body float level, taking all the movement in your knees. also keep your feet closer together, almost like you were walking on a balance beam. the wider your stance the more side to side movement you'll see. start off stepping heel to toe for distance, and taking those steps fast, then start taking longer strides, but never so long as you'd normally take when running or walking fast.
Quigley said:If you can run to the front door to catch the pizza guy...with a full glass of beer...and not spill any...you're well on your way
Show me a Canadian that can not do that and I will show you a American on vacation.
Spilling beer that is blasphemy
