Shooting Shot from a PH P53 Enfield?

Alias

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Hi All BP Gunnutz,

I've got a Parker Hale (.58) cal P53 Muzzleloader and was wondering since it has a very slow twist rate (1:72") could it be used to shoot shot? This bore size equals 24 gage so wads etc may be available. Though less than ideal - I thought it might get me some use from this safe queen

Anyone tried something like this?
 
Just a question, there are a lot of people who would like a PH1853. If you are looking to use shot because you aren't using the gun otherwise, why not sell it and get a smoothbore?
 
Not sure how much I would use a smoothbore , After years of not owning a shotgun I bought a double barrel one a few years ago, then sold it almost right away because I didn't use it - I'm mostly into rifle target shooting & when I get a gun shooting as good as I can - well it ends up in the safe and start experimenting on the next one

I'm thinking someday I'll take the P53 hunting (I have a good minnie ball load for it) - maybe even bear hunting. If that happens I could load up some shot mid day when I get bored and maybe look for a grouse - but mostly see this as another experiment
 
Alias: It's do-able, but you will likely end up with a "donut hole" in the pattern. The shot will tend to spin in conjunction with the rifling. As a result, centrifugal force pushes the shot to the outside of the pattern. Leaving a big hole in the middle. I've seen grouse completely missed, as close as ten feet away.
 
Hi Alex,

I agree, I'm expecting a donut hole - just thinking the slower the twist the smaller the hole - Once I get some wads I'll give it a try. Going to look around for some .58 cal wonderwads for over powder and make my own over shot wads.
 
Hi Alex,

I agree, I'm expecting a donut hole - just thinking the slower the twist the smaller the hole - Once I get some wads I'll give it a try. Going to look around for some .58 cal wonderwads for over powder and make my own over shot wads.

Interesting thread here I must say. I have one of those as well and would be interested in you posting your results if you would. What components to create the load, how much BP, shot size, weight etc. Very curious how this turns out! A pic of the pattern it creates would be very interesting to see as well.
 
When I was a kid I had a .58 CVA Hawken, Cash for proper supplies was tight so we use to shoot anything that fit down the barrel, shot, nails, fine gravel, rocks, nuts bolts you name it, I shot it! It was a fine 20 yard gopher gun with 120 grains of powder and an equal amount of shoe nails. I stamped wads out of cardboard using a pipe with a bevel filed edge. After a while accuracy dropped off due to the fine treatment of the rifling, and years later I sold it to a friend. Shooting shot from a slow twist ML is no issue, the patterns wont be great for longer ranges.
 
There could be a problem with doing that if you plan on using it for hunting depending what your game regulations are.Where I live if I was caught doing that say rabbit hunting I d be in trouble because even though I was using shot because of the 58 cal and the fact it has a rifled bore I would be using a gun that was illegal for hunting small game.If it was a 58 cal smoothbore I would be ok

Parker Hale made some of their black powder enfield muskets in smooth bore form for their home market
 
Alias: It is possible that the slower rifling pitch may reduce scatter. Only way for sure is to experiment. No need to purchase over powder wads. You can punch them out of hard felt or even cardboard, with the same punch used to make overshot cards. Sometimes I just use a double overshot card...or double cardboard wad on top of the powder. Been doing this for many years, without issue.

icanuck: You may already be aware of this. But if not...here's some info that may help. For others, too. BP loads are usually measured in drams of powder. A dram equals 27.3 grains. So, it is very easy to calculate how many drams your powder charge is, by comparing it to the number of grains(by volume) your bp powder measure throws. Use the same measure to throw both powder and shot. For example: 3 drams: 80-82 grains(approximate) of 2 Ffg powder. Shot equivalent: 1 1/16-1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2 shot(approximate). This is my standard 12 gauge bunny load. Used for both muzzle loader and bp shotshells. I also quite often use a 56 caliber(28 gauge) smooth bore barrel, in place of my .50 cal. TC Renegade rifled barrel. Load: 2 drams/55 gr. Ffg. 3/4 oz 7 1/2 shot. A good bunny thumper.

In Brad243's case though, we are dealing with a bore that measures out to approximately 24 gauge. So...my 12 gauge loads are way too stout for good results in his rifle. Patterns will most likely be awful. 20 gauge loads are likely going to be a bit too hot, as well. While 28 gauge loads.. are likely a better place to start. In which case, a 2 dram/55 grain Ffg powder charge and approx. 3/4 oz of shot, may be the ticket. Or something in between 28 and 20 gauge. Only experimentation will tell the tale. I am interested in the results too...so Brad243...any info you can share is appreciated.

Chasseur may be onto something, too. The only way to be certain is to check with your provincial hunting regulations.
 
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alias: Since you mention that you already have a good minie ball load for your rifle...that may be a good place to start for your shot load, too. Would certainly simplify things in the field, should it work well. If I recall correctly, the standard charge for the .58 military rifles was 60 grains of powder.
 
Quite a few years ago, I tried shooting shot out of 54 cal rifle with .020" deep rifling at 1:68" twist. I put up a target at 10 or 12 yards and aimed for the center. I don't think any two pellets were closer than 6" from each other. I did not pursue further trials :>)

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon: I experimented with a .54 cal., with fairly similar results, too. Likewise: .45 and .50 cal. The faster the rifling pitch, the worse the pellet scatter. i am interested in seeing whether the slower 1:72 pitch has any effect on the size of the donut hole. Perhaps not. But...The extra knowledge is always useful.
 
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Looks like I was wrong about the PH P53 twist rate. Apparently in the years mine was made there were two available twist rates for the PH P53 either 1:78 or 1:48 both with 3 groove rifling. Mine is 1:48 so I'm not going to bother trying shot.

I will probably take it out and do some shooting with the minnie bullet in the next week or 2 if it's not too cold. I'll post a picture of the group if it's something respectable.
 
51141037185_d63c21eea6_m.jpg


Waiting for Goex 3FG to shoot the P53. Meantime took out the Pedersoli Gibbs the other day - 10 shots in 1.5" cluster at right. Circled holes were me trying to shoot my Marlin 45-70 from sitting
 
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