shooting to the left...me or the gun?

Mr. Friendly

Mr. Friendly

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shot several pistols and they all seem to be shooting to the left. I'm all over the 4" circle, so I cannot tell if it's high or low; all I know is it's left.

can't decide whether it's me or whether it's the 3 pistol's I'm shooting. being every single one of then is shooting left of the bulls eye, i can't figure if it's coincidence that all guns need some sight adjustment, or if there's something wrong with my grip or stance.

based on that little information, what can you tell me?

guns are Browning 1911-22, M&P 22 and SR9.

thoughts?
 
Three guns, probably you. Low, and left, are common shooter errors for a right-handed person.

Shoot a group left-handed and compare.
 
Sounds like you are pushing the gun down. Sometimes that happens when anticipating recoil. Have you tried to push pull and see if that clears up the problem.
 
low and too the left. interesting.

what steps can a righty take to center their shots? aside from adjusting the sights to force compensation.

as I was falling asleep yesterday, I was thinking I should get the Magpul Dynamics: Art of the Pistol and see what it had to say... :rolleyes:
 
Booger said:
Sounds like you are pushing the gun down. Sometimes that happens when anticipating recoil. Have you tried to push pull and see if that clears up the problem.
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being new to pistol shooting, I don't know any of the phrases/words/definitions of techniques. what do you mean when you say 'tried to push and pull'?

thanks! :)
 
Adjust yourself, not the guns. Left or low and left that consistently is your grip. I'd usually include the idea that you're flinching but that's unlikely given that two of them are .22's.

Start with the grip basics. In particular note how in this video link below that the pistol is set into the web between the thumb and forefinger so that it naturally aligns with the wrist. Do not discount that aspect.

Two other things.

First is try to ensure your trigger finger flexes mostly at the middle joint so that the two segments tend to hinge back from that joint. If you're simply closing your whole trigger finger from the knuckle then it'll tend to push the gun over to the left. The longer pull used on double action revolvers requires a little more motion in the knuckle but for semi autos with less trigger travel you really don't need much or any knuckle motion.

Second is to pull all the way back then HOLD it. Hold the trigger fully back through the recoil and let the gun settle. Then ease up until you feel the reset click. Then you can reverse the pressure and begin pressuring back for the next shot.

The trigger is not a computer mouse either. You want to build pressure and let it move as it wishes. At first try to build up the pressure from nothing to having the trigger fully to the rear in about 1/2 second. Later on you'll learn to build pressure faster but without snatching at it. Snapping the trigger with a nervous tick like action is a sure recipe for pulled and spread out patterns instead of tight groups.

So work on holding your sight picture as you build pressure. And pull through to the rear travel limit so you have a proper follow through. Only once the recoil is damped out do you want to ease up and let the trigger push your finger forward with the same sort of control that you used to pull it in the first place. "Smooth" is the key. "Smooth" will become "speed" in time and with some experience. As you work towards "fast" if your groups open back up then work at THAT speed until they close again then work on a little more speed.

It's all about doing the PROPER basics really fast. But you have to crawl before you walk and walk before you run and run before you enter your first Olympics.
 
Mr. Friendly said:
what steps can a righty take to center their shots? aside from adjusting the sights to force compensation.
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Sights should not be adjusted to compensate, it's just wrong.

For the time being just ignore where the bullets impact, provided you're on the target. Instead concentrate on group size.

~ I like a tiny aiming point on a plain piece of paper, I generally use a bullet hole for an aiming point and use a 6 o'clock hold. This combination allows me to see any movement of sights.
~ Dry-fire with your eyes closed. This will help you with trigger control, you will be able to feel every movement as the trigger is pulled.

~~~

When you are confidant that you are shooting properly and with good groups, then adjust the sights so that point-of-impact coincides with point-of-aim.
 
dry fire is your friend here. You are pulling into the recoil (pre-compensating as it where) Have a friend load a snap cap at random in your mag if you don't think that's what your doing. Odds are at the shot you'll see the gun pull down.

Start dry firing against a target taped to the wall, or a easily sighted on point like a light switch. For heaven's sake, make sure you don't have any ammo out and around, and clear the gun multiple times before you do this at home. The wife WILL be pissed if you shoot the TV!

Once you can hold the gun thru the trigger break and not have the sights move from your aiming point (no dip, weave or bob as the hammer drops) your ready to try a few rounds live. Odds are that in a mag or two you will see yourself doing it again, so go back to dry firing and concentrate on breaking the shot smooth again. If you have a 22 auto, this is an excellent tool...you will usually learn to break it smooth before the centerfire. Once it's breaking smooth, go back to the 9 again. Shoot deliberately until you see the low and left, then stop and dry fire or 22 until your shooting center again....repeat until your consistent with the 9. Might come quick, might take some work.....

99.99% of the time, accuracy issues are trigger manipulation, with a side order of grip'/stance. Don't try to mash the trigger when the sight picture is perfect...you will pull it farther off that way then if you center the sights and slowly squeeze thru. The sights will float a bit, that's ok to an extent. your error will be smaller if you don't try to jerk the trigger, even though the sight picture is slightly off. If you see the gun start to really weave, shake, circle, finger off the trigger and lower the pistol and take a break. Remember to breathe, but pausing while you break the shot it ok.

The more you practice this, the quicker you will be able to do it accurately. Please note, it's far easier to learn the be accurate and then get fast, then it is to teach yourself to shoot fast, then try to get accurate. TAKE YOUR TIME, make EACH shot count. Don't be afraid to only put 3-5 rounds in a mag and try to shoot each one perfectly then take a short break. Again, the more you practice this, the easier the concentration becomes, and the better you will shoot.

Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. You can bang off 10 000 rounds and learn nothing if you just toss it all down the range as fast as the gun can cycle....try to analyse each shot as you take it. Sometimes it helps to put up multiple targets so you just take one shot at each target then pull them in and look. Mark/patch the strike then do it again, lets you know what each shot has done.

Most service type pistols will shoot 3-4" at 25 yards if you practice some much better, at 12-15, they should be 9-10 ring solid (1.5")...that gives you something to work towards ;)

This WILL make you a much better shot if you work at it. It is work/practice. Once i got good at it, i found it relaxing, but initially it can be less fun then just dumping fast in the general direction of the target. Good luck
 
The quick reference version. Hope this helps. (reverse for Lefties)

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I am right handed, and started shooting with shots hitting left and a little low.


Easily diagnosed by a kind RO that I was doing more 'yanking' than 'squeezing' of the trigger.

Stopped yanking; starting hitting center.



.... work it and enjoy!
 
Lot's of good advice here but hey guys, what if all three guns are just shooting to the left? All of the above advice is useless without first determining if the sights are indeed properly aligned. Let's put the cart back behind the horse, shall we?

OP, it wouldn't hurt to also have a known "Good Pistol Shot" try one or all of your guns if possible.

If you can't find any problems with your technique as described above, and you're shooting nice tight groups but they are left, well then maybe you just need to adjust the sights. "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".

For somebody to say "It's you, not the gun" or "never adjust the sights" based on an internet post is ridiculous. I've seen plenty of guns that aren't "on", new and used. We certainly don't know, and you may not know, what's been done to that gun and it's sights. Maybe the same guy owned all three of these guns before you and he had some bad technique that caused him to shoot to the right, so he adjusted the sights....nobody knows.

Try benching too and see what you get.

Good luck, you'll figure it out.
 
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Something you can try at home that is very revealing is to take your centerfire pistol (fine to dry fire) and attach a laser pointer to it. Use tape, zap strap, whatever. All you need is to be able to see a red dot on the wall when you have your typical sight picture. Now pull the trigger and see if that red dot moves. It shouldn't. What you'll probably find is that the dot will be moving so you need to practice your grip and trigger pull to keep that red dot stable.
 
Ticketed said:
I am right handed, and started shooting with shots hitting left and a little low.


Easily diagnosed by a kind RO that I was doing more 'yanking' than 'squeezing' of the trigger.

Stopped yanking; starting hitting center.



.... work it and enjoy!
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And have another (Good) shooter to try it..
 
TwoTone said:
Lot's of good advice here but hey guys, what if all three guns are just shooting to the left? All of the above advice is useless without first determining if the sights are indeed properly aligned. Let's put the cart back behind the horse, shall we?

OP, it wouldn't hurt to also have a known "Good Pistol Shot" try one or all of your guns if possible.

If you can't find any problems with your technique as described above, and you're shooting nice tight groups but they are left, well then maybe you just need to adjust the sights. "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".

For somebody to say "It's you, not the gun" or "never adjust the sights" based on an internet post is ridiculous. I've seen plenty of guns that aren't "on", new and used. We certainly don't know, and you may not know, what's been done to that gun and it's sights. Maybe the same guy owned all three of these guns before you and he had some bad technique that caused him to shoot to the right, so he adjusted the sights....nobody knows.

Try benching too and see what you get.

Good luck, you'll figure it out.
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So, three different pistols all needing the sights adjusted to the right seems more probable to you than a new shooter just shooting to the left? I agree that he should have a competent shooter check the guns, but the odds dictate that he needs to correct his technique.
 
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