Short 12 gauge suggestion

DocBurN

DocBurN

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Hi guys,

About 12 gauge shotgun.. I would appreciate your help/input/suggestion.

All i have been suggested so far is to look into mossberg.. classical looking or tactical looking, im open to suggestion.. technically.. I was thinking at a short backpacking protection shotgun and its my first shotgun ever. What would you recommand me around the 26-27 inch (legal shorty) ?

Once again, thank you for your time, help and answers guys!

DocBurN
 
i guess i should not be in the "hunting and sporting" but since i had a black bear problem at the last camping trip in the wild.. im close enough to hunting :)

i'll look into that Silveragent :) thx for your input

EDIT:
###y little beast... only hold 1 shell in the chamber and 2 in the tube but its the price i have to pay for a shorty..
non-restricted is a must for me.. the length of the barrel is a X factor for e right now.. not sure if i should go a lil longer for a few extra shell in the tube!
Can i have a cut down barrel or its the same rules as the .22 (have to be manufactured short .. can't be cutted down?)
 
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On a pump it can only be cut to 18" must retain 26" overall.

18" is more than short enough and allows you a full mag tube.

Just remember slugs kill bears , and a short sight plane like that of a pistol makes in ineffective past 20 yards.
 
DocBurn, the Grizzly you're referring to with the 3 shot capacity is the 8.5 inch model... If you get the 12.5 inch model, it's capacity is 5 just like the Remington 870.

I have the 12.5 inch barreled Dominion Arms Grizzly. It has ALWAYS worked with ZERO malfunctions of any kind.

It IS my bear gun.

Cheers
Jay
 
Really good to know. About those grizzly.. I see a lot of non-us-made comments here and there.. Calling it clone knockoff...

I personnaly dont care about that but i got zero experience with 12gauge. The 5 shells version is a good idea for my project but would like to find both the overall length of the 8" and the 12".. And their respective weight..
 
With respect to pump shotguns, Mossberg is my go to choice. I got my 590 a dozen years ago, its seen hard use, and still functions in a smooth trouble free manner. If I was purchasing one today mind you, I'd opt for a 5 shot model for faster handling. So why Mossberg over Remington? Simply because there is nothing on the Mossberg shotgun that cannot be replaced by its owner if it should fail. Not so the Remington which requires a well equipped shop once things begin to fail. I expected the M-88 Maverick Security to be an inexpensive option to the 500 series, but the ones I've seen are much rougher and cheaper feeling. I would not choose one of these guns to protect myself, so stick with the 500, the 835, or the 590 models. Something that you might consider if the gun is to be used in rough conditions is a choke that extends past the muzzle to protect it from dings off rocks if you're climbing around in rocky country. I that respect an short 835 with a door breaching choke would be a good choice. The disadvantage of the 500 series guns is that the magazine cannot be broken down for cleaning. Yes, the tubes on some guns can be unscrewed, but I'm finding that this is less and less frequent and that the factory is using a thread locking compound to prevent the mag tube from unthreading. For that reason, I would opt for a 590 or 835 as they have a threaded magazine cap.
 
So far... i read a lot on shotgun.. i hear Remington 870, Mossberg 500, Dominion Arms Grizzly.. the read will go on all day!

Dominion Arms Grizzly Shotgun - 12.5
125shotgun.jpg

Capacity: 4+1 ( 3" )
Weight: 3.16Kg
Length 31"
Fixed Cylinder Bore
Bead Sight
NON-RESTRICTED

I wonder the legal status of this sweet looking shotgun if you install a pistol grip (im not exactly a fan of pistol grip on a shotgun but if its legal, and remove a few inch from the stock down from 31" to let say 26-27.. that would be perfect for my use with 2 more shells than the 8.5inch barrel version!
 
If you're thinking about a pistol grip only shotgun, load it up, and shoot it to see if you can hit well enough to protect yourself with it. I'd sooner put up with a few more inches of length than carry a gun I can't hit anything with. In a self defense scenario, you need to have good control of the gun and you need to be able to fire followup shots in a quick accurate manner. Shooting effectively at close range is far more demanding than most people understand.
 
Boomer said:
With respect to pump shotguns, Mossberg is my go to choice. I got my 590 a dozen years ago, its seen hard use, and still functions in a smooth trouble free manner. If I was purchasing one today mind you, I'd opt for a 5 shot model for faster handling. So why Mossberg over Remington? Simply because there is nothing on the Mossberg shotgun that cannot be replaced by its owner if it should fail. Not so the Remington which requires a well equipped shop once things begin to fail. I expected the M-88 Maverick Security to be an inexpensive option to the 500 series, but the ones I've seen are much rougher and cheaper feeling. I would not choose one of these guns to protect myself, so stick with the 500, the 835, or the 590 models. Something that you might consider if the gun is to be used in rough conditions is a choke that extends past the muzzle to protect it from dings off rocks if you're climbing around in rocky country. I that respect an short 835 with a door breaching choke would be a good choice. The disadvantage of the 500 series guns is that the magazine cannot be broken down for cleaning. Yes, the tubes on some guns can be unscrewed, but I'm finding that this is less and less frequent and that the factory is using a thread locking compound to prevent the mag tube from unthreading. For that reason, I would opt for a 590 or 835 as they have a threaded magazine cap.
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Thank you for your input.. appreciated! What kind of choke would you recommend me for this "in case sh!t happen/bear" scenario.. and i didn't even consider what kind of ammo yet, that's another story.

I'll give more love/reading to Mossberg today, my PAL instructor was really pushing me toward that direction.
 
Boomer said:
I'd sooner put up with a few more inches of length than carry a gun I can't hit anything with.
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with a short barrel shotgun.. i did not expected accuracy problem from my zero experience point of view.. as long as it can be fixed with practice, i'll go shoot a couple hundred shells :)
 
DocBurN said:
with a short barrel shotgun.. i did not expected accuracy problem from my zero experience point of view.. as long as it can be fixed with practice, i'll go shoot a couple hundred shells :)
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I'm not referring to the accuracy of the gun, but the prowess of the marksman. Anything you do to make the gun less controllable makes it more difficult to shoot well. Understand that in a defensive shooting situation, you will not be calm and collected, and having a gun that is difficult to lock on target or wants to jump out of you hands when fired won't help. Regardless of the gun you choose, practice, practice, practice.
 
DocBurN said:
Thank you for your input.. appreciated! What kind of choke would you recommend me for this "in case sh!t happen/bear" scenario.. and i didn't even consider what kind of ammo yet, that's another story.

I'll give more love/reading to Mossberg today, my PAL instructor was really pushing me toward that direction.
Click to expand...

In the case that you'll be shooting slugs or buckshot, you want an open choke, meaning one with no or very little constriction. The one I'm thinking of is designed for military and police application for door breaching and can be identified by the fact that it extends beyond the muzzle and has saw teeth to allow it to bite into the wood. It is available for civilian sale.

While I don't have an extended choke on my gun, I wish I did. But something I did add after the fact was a heat shield. Yes it looks a bit on the tactical side, but the benefit is that if you fall, it helps protect the barrel from being dented. Along the coast here there is a specific type of black algae which is like wet polished glass when you step on it, and that heat shield/shroud has saved me the cost of a barrel on more than one occasion.
 
shorty

The Dominion Arms 12.5 is right on the money for your stated purpose and intentions.

It is as short as possible while retaining reasonable magazine capacity as well as it remains practically shootable.

The 8.5in guns are VERY short which makes them much harder to shoot well especially if you don't practice a significant amount. They also give up mag capacity which seems silly for the purpose.
They also have a proprietary mag tube and slide configuration which limits their parts and accessory availability.

The DA guns although chinese are of decent quality and routinely function and stand up well.

The shortest Mossberg easily available is a 18.5in gun which is not nearly as compact as the 12.5in DA. Good gun and a better go arguably if you are going the full size route.
 
I have a dual pistol gripped mossberg 500 with an 18.5" cylinder barrel under a heat shield. Its overall length is 26 1/8" I can shoot it very well and its easy to control. Others have used it and missed the backstop and hurt their wrists I use mine quite a bit and even shoot skeet with it and do respectable shooting at that. It takes practice and lots of it. In a defense shotgun choke won't matter because by the time you realize you need it and grab it chamber a round and take the safety off the bear/cougar or whatever will already be close enough that it won't matter. As mentioned an extended choke may save the muzzle. Proper bush craft and common sense will prevent almost all situations ever encountered. Yes males can be territorial and sows with cubs can be nasty but if proper care is taken the bears should have moved off first. I don't know about polar bears however they may be different in their actions
 
my two cents .. if your primarily interested in bear protection then I would suggest a rifled slug gun (only good for slugs). Do you want semi or pump. I bought a semi 22" - browning maxus... will be shipping from Al Flahertys today so havent shot it yet. Alot will depend on what you want pay.
 
brybenn said:
I have a dual pistol gripped mossberg 500 with an 18.5" cylinder barrel under a heat shield. Its overall length is 26 1/8" I can shoot it very well and its easy to control. Others have used it and missed the backstop and hurt their wrists I use mine quite a bit and even shoot skeet with it and do respectable shooting at that. It takes practice and lots of it. In a defense shotgun choke won't matter because by the time you realize you need it and grab it chamber a round and take the safety off the bear/cougar or whatever will already be close enough that it won't matter. As mentioned an extended choke may save the muzzle. Proper bush craft and common sense will prevent almost all situations ever encountered. Yes males can be territorial and sows with cubs can be nasty but if proper care is taken the bears should have moved off first. I don't know about polar bears however they may be different in their actions
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If you've worked out a system whereby your eye is in repeatable alignment to the sights or bead without the aid of a butt-stock, my hat is off to you. The question is however whether or not that prowess can be maintained in a stressful situation. A dangerous bear encounter has a way of getting your attention. You'll feel weak in the knees, your heart will race, your hands sweat, your vision blurrs, and you have a strong desire to be almost anywhere else. Its great fun, but when it happens to me, I want every advantage that I can get from my firearm, so in addition to big caliber heavy bullet rounds, I want a gun that's easy to use, and that includes a butt-stock that I can nestle my cheek on.

The point of a choke on a defensive gun is to protect the muzzle, not to constrict the bore, and is something that's particularly useful in rocky ground. The muzzle of my 590 is sufficiently scuffed that I know adding a choke is something I should do, buy haven't yet. Usually a constricted muzzle is detrimental to slug accuracy and to buckshot patterns, but this is not universally true. Choke constriction is a problem for those who might choose to use cracker shells though. It will cause a cracker shell to explode in the barrel before it exits the muzzle far more frequently than you'll enjoy, and that's hard on the ears.

The bears I've found you have to watch for are the youngsters that have just left mom. These are the guys that are too curious for my own good, and too often they have a chip on their shoulder, and can be dangerous. A bear doesn't need to weigh a thousand pounds to be a dangerous bear. The main difference between polar bears and say coastal grizzlies is that the polar bear is more social and has a smaller personal space. But that personal space is very real and once its has been encroached upon, intentionally or unintentionally, he will approach you.
 
Thank you for all your info guys..

- A choke to protect the muzzle is a great idea for how and what I do everytime i go in the woods.

- Do I want semi-auto ? I have never think about it before.. could be nice but will probably boost the price up! Its not mandatory for me.

- The pistol grip is only to have a shorter overall length.. i do prefer a full stock on my shoulder. A few days ago, i was just thinking to save a few inches and though pistol grip shotgun would give me more ammo in the shotgun. even tho what i think, i may be better with a full stock and 2 less round in the tube.. depend on what shotgun i choose.

- While primary for wood/backpacking/eventually truck shotgun.. between trip in the wood, the shotgun will be re-purpose in home defense tool.

I start to beleave the 12.5 is the way to go too for this specific use.. in the DA brand. I got nothing against Remm or Moss but i dont think they can offer me something around 26-27. Also.. I get confused when I hear from a gun store.. Remmington is easier to fix yourself, you can find part everywhere way more than Mossberg's shotgun, etc.. then another store tells me the exact opposite with Mossberg being on top over Remmington.

As long as its around 26-27 inchs.. semi or not.. with the maximum ammo i can fit in the tube for that very short OAL.. it will do what i need it to do!

Just want to add a big thank you to everyone here helping a shotgun rookie making up is mind and finding the best solution.
 
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DocBurN said:
Thank you for all your info guys..

- A full choke to protect the muzzle is a great idea for how and what I do everytime i go in the woods.

- Do I want semi-auto ? I have never think about it before.. could be nice but will probably boost the price up! Its not mandatory for me.

- The pistol grip is only to have a shorter overall length.. i do prefer a full stock on my shoulder. A few days ago, i was just thinking to save a few inches and though pistol grip shotgun would give me more ammo in the shotgun. even tho what i think, i may be better with a full stock and 2 less round in the tube.. depend on what shotgun i choose.

- While primary for wood/backpacking/eventually truck shotgun.. between trip in the wood, the shotgun will be re-purpose in home defense tool.

I start to beleave the 12.5 is the way to go too for this specific use.. in the DA brand. I got nothing against Remm or Moss but i dont think they can offer me something around 26-27. Also.. I get confused when I hear from a gun store.. Remmington is easier to fix yourself, you can find part everywhere way more than Mossberg's shotgun, etc.. then another store tells me the exact opposite with Mossberg being on top over Remmington.

As long as its around 26-27 inchs.. semi or not.. with the maximum ammo i can fit in the tube for that very short OAL.. it will do what i need it to do!

Just want to add a big thank you to everyone here helping a shotgun rookie making up is mind and finding the best solution.
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:eek:
NO, NO, NO!

You don't want a full choke on your protection gun. If you do purchase a choke that extends past the muzzle, make sure its one with no constriction, that is a cylinder or improved cylinder choke. No full chokes!
 
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