Short Action Magnum Cartridge - Build Help

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jayquiver

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I have a Defiance Anti X, Short Action, with 2 bolts, (308bf and Mag bf.) Will be running Hawkins Hunter Magazine, 2.980 internal length. Will be set up as a switch barrel set up.
Was originally originally planning on doing a 6.5CM and 7 Saum. But I may pivot on this.

Looking for cartridge/bullet recommendations for the Magnum Bolt face that would fit nicely in the case without eating up too much room.

  • 6.5 PRC seems like the easy button. But concerns about the “clickers” that I’ve read about online.
  • 7 Saum seems like a good fit with bullets under 168gr.
  • 7 Sherman Short should work but have no experience with it. Suppose to run 180gr bullets better then the Saum.
  • Would a 300 WSM work well? If so with what bullets
Any other suggestions?

I do have a 6.5mm 8 twist barrel and a 7mm 8 twist barrel both @ 24"- but willing to buy another.
 
“Clickers” are one of the latest fad words used to describe lack of extraction due to small chamber size, thick brass, and or large dies. There are multiple combinations of causes. Build the rifle correctly, with attention to reamer sizes and brass, and you’ll not have a problem.

A 7 Saum will launch a 168 at or very near 3000 fps at the length you described. 180’s can get there as well, or very close depending on barrel length.

The WSM is a longer case than the Saum, so the bullet eats up some case capacity.

R.
 
Personally, I would go with the 6.5 PRC, and stock up on brass... as for bullets... we need more info... how do you plan to use it, on what, and at what typical ranges?
 
hoytcanon said:
Personally, I would go with the 6.5 PRC, and stock up on brass... as for bullets... we need more info... how do you plan to use it, on what, and at what typical ranges?
Click to expand...
I’d run 143-147 grain bullets. Hunting rifle.
Hunting ranges would be under 600 yards…typically well under that. Mostly it would be Mule deer and smaller.
Target practice would be as far as I could stretch it.

Side note...When I ordered the action my plan was for a 1 gun with multiply barrels set up. Since then I sold my custom 7 Saum so that freed up a bunch of cash almost enough to build a custom in a Long Action with similar components. If I do that I would run a 7 PRC or similar in the LA. That would give me 2 custom rifles with a bunch of barrel options. The LA would only be a mag bolt face.
 
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Rman said:
“Clickers” are one of the latest fad words used to describe lack of extraction due to small chamber size, thick brass, and or large dies. There are multiple combinations of causes. Build the rifle correctly, with attention to reamer sizes and brass, and you’ll not have a problem.

A 7 Saum will launch a 168 at or very near 3000 fps at the length you described. 180’s can get there as well, or very close depending on barrel length.

The WSM is a longer case than the Saum, so the bullet eats up some case capacity.

R.
Click to expand...
I have read that Alex Wheeler has a AW2 reamer for the 6.5 prc and may fix all the "clicker" issues. Could be an option if my gunsmith has it.
 
How many guys are running threaded/shouldered barrels and switching them regularly? Are they headspacing fine after 20-30 changes? How are those stainless threads holding up? I know of one guy who was changing barrels regularly and wasn’t having any problems and I’ve also heard a few stories about defiance actions not able to support a 3rd barrel swap.

As far as cartridges go I think you’re on the right track. It sounds like those 6.5prc issues have been sorted out by a few smart guys in the states. Like someone said above, as long as your gunsmith has the right reamer. I shoot a 6.5-284(pretty similar case size to 6.5prc) and a 7saum both on xm length antis in lightweight rifles. The 6.5-284 is the perfect blend of shootability and performance, but it’s a little light for grizzly bears and such if you’re in that kind of country. I’m just working on my 7saum right now and I’ve dialed back the speed of the 168barnes lrx to about 2750fps. It’s hard to shoot a 7# rifle producing that much recoil. The downfall of the 7saum is getting brass. It’s around, but it’s expensive. It’s not a huge deal for a hunting rifle, you just have to pony up some cash for a bunch before you get started so you know you have enough to shoot for a long time.

Another option would be the 6.5prc necked up to a 7mm. It has a few different names but something like 6.5-7prcw or whatever they’re calling it.

I’d stick with a 7mm over a .30 calibre unless I was building something substantially heavier and on a long or xm length action. If you’re looking for a 30 than I’d have a peak at the 300rcm.
 
jayquiver said:
I have read that Alex Wheeler has a AW2 reamer for the 6.5 prc and may fix all the "clicker" issues. Could be an option if my gunsmith has it.
Click to expand...
Lots of newer reamers out to accommodate the thicker brass being offered. The reamer drawings should tell you what you need to know.

R.
 
remington jim said:
I run a 6.5 PRC 24 “ BM barrel in a Rem M700 with a Wyatt box 153 TIPs at 2950 ! Flat shooting load with Easy recoil .👍
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Saami spec reamer or did you do something else? If so any issues with it?

The 6.5 PRC seems like an easy option especially if I don't have time to reload.

I thought if I go 6.5 prc I would probably go with a 6 creed for the .308 bf. Could be a nice set up for lots of critters.
 
Having owned all 4 at some point Id go 6.5 prc as its the easy button for components. If components and money isn't an issue, 7 sherman short all day. 7 saum is up there if you want an easy ish button with components and want a 7mm in a short action.
 
Markymark130 said:
Having owned all 4 at some point Id go 6.5 prc as its the easy button for components. If components and money isn't an issue, 7 sherman short all day. 7 saum is up there if you want an easy ish button with components and want a 7mm in a short action.
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7 sherman short interests me but I don't think I need 180 grain bullet for hunting at my distances. I think the 7 saum with 160's would be great for deer to elk.

I also have 7 saum brass and dies and some factory ammo.
 
jayquiver said:
7 sherman short interests me but I don't think I need 180 grain bullet for hunting at my distances. I think the 7 saum with 160's would be great for deer to elk.

I also have 7 saum brass and dies and some factory ammo.
Click to expand...
I think your on the money then doing a 6.5 creedmoor for target practice and 7 saum for hunting especially already having components. My current prs rifle is in 6.5 creedmoor. Not sure how much you shoot, but a 6.5 prc target rifle doesnt last long.
 
jayquiver said:
Saami spec reamer or did you do something else? If so any issues with it?

The 6.5 PRC seems like an easy option especially if I don't have time to reload.

I thought if I go 6.5 prc I would probably go with a 6 creed for the .308 bf. Could be a nice set up for lots of critters.
Click to expand...
Spec reamer and I use ADG brass match FL due with busing then mandrel the necks ! No problems 153 or 156 grers for hunting .
I also have 6 Creeds Another excellent one . Great deer Cartrudge 👍

I have a couple of 6.5 Creeds too Excellent also !
I’ve had a couple of 7 Saums too it’s a Great cartridge but I would use the 7-6.6PRCW Now . JMHO 👍
 
Jim get some sleep it’s 3AM!! 🤣

Iv had both the 6.5 prc and still have a 7 Saum, both on XM’s though.

The prc I never had any issues with but my 7 Saum would get clickers. I dropped my powder charge to a lower node m and took care of the problem. I was getting 3-4-5 firings from ADG before loosening the primer pockets as well with the warmer load. Went from 2980 fps to 2900 iirc with the powder charge change in a 20” barrel, seemed to really help the clickers and loose primer pockets.

I much prefer the 7 Saum over the 6.5 prc, not sure why. Both were a little picky in component combos I found.

The saum has a break and is 8’ish pounds, the prc was 6.5 pounds no break. The 6.5 prc wasn’t fun to shoot, the saum is fun and manageable.

I would look at the 7-6.5prcw if I was to do it all again. That just me though!
 
Decker9 said:
Jim get some sleep it’s 3AM!! 🤣

Iv had both the 6.5 prc and still have a 7 Saum, both on XM’s though.

The prc I never had any issues with but my 7 Saum would get clickers. I dropped my powder charge to a lower node m and took care of the problem. I was getting 3-4-5 firings from ADG before loosening the primer pockets as well with the warmer load. Went from 2980 fps to 2900 iirc with the powder charge change in a 20” barrel, seemed to really help the clickers and loose primer pockets.

I much prefer the 7 Saum over the 6.5 prc, not sure why. Both were a little picky in component combos I found.

The saum has a break and is 8’ish pounds, the prc was 6.5 pounds no break. The 6.5 prc wasn’t fun to shoot, the saum is fun and manageable.

I would look at the 7-6.5prcw if I was to do it all again. That just me though!
Click to expand...
What bullet and powder combo are you using?
 
Decker9 said:
Jim get some sleep it’s 3AM!! 🤣

Iv had both the 6.5 prc and still have a 7 Saum, both on XM’s though.

The prc I never had any issues with but my 7 Saum would get clickers. I dropped my powder charge to a lower node m and took care of the problem. I was getting 3-4-5 firings from ADG before loosening the primer pockets as well with the warmer load. Went from 2980 fps to 2900 iirc with the powder charge change in a 20” barrel, seemed to really help the clickers and loose primer pockets.

I much prefer the 7 Saum over the 6.5 prc, not sure why. Both were a little picky in component combos I found.

The saum has a break and is 8’ish pounds, the prc was 6.5 pounds no break. The 6.5 prc wasn’t fun to shoot, the saum is fun and manageable.

I would look at the 7-6.5prcw if I was to do it all again. That just me though!
Click to expand...
My gunsmith mentioned that cartridge. He has a reamer for it. Did a little reading up on it but not a ton of info.

Does anyone know the dvantages/disadvantages of the 7-6.5prcw vs 7 saum - Would the 168 to 180 grain bullets -175 ELDX and 180 Berger Hybrids fit in the 7-6.5prcw case better then the 7 saum.

I've "rough measured" (COAL with callipers) up a few bullets that fit into my Hawkins mag. Here are the results

Berger 168 VLD fits about perfect. Haven't hunting with them
Berger 175 Elite Hunter- crowds the case a little. Not sure it would make much of a difference. Haven't hunted with them.
Nosler 160 Accubond - Factory ammo - eats into the case. I was still getting about 2850 fps. Shot a larger Whitetail buck it it at 185 yards. Hammered him. Would use again.
Hornady CX 160 - way down into the powder column. Seem's like most coppers in the 160 grain would be similar. Probably better in a 7 PRC.
Nosler 150 Long Range Accubond - Could work well.
Barnes 160 LRX - Not ideal
Barnes 152 LRX - works. Could be a good option.

**most photos have a factory Nosler 160 grain accubond beside the bullet of choice at 2.970-2.980 (Hawkins Hunter max length) for reference
 

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Bustercluck said:
What bullet and powder combo are you using?
Click to expand...

Iv settled on 63 grains of H1000 with a 168 vld. I was using 64.8 and it shot great, but the slower load shoots well too.

jayquiver said:
My gunsmith mentioned that cartridge. He has a reamer for it. Did a little reading up on it but not a ton of info.

Does anyone know the dvantages/disadvantages of the 7-6.5prcw vs 7 saum - Would the 168 to 180 grain bullets -175 ELDX and 180 Berger Hybrids fit in the 7-6.5prcw case better then the 7 saum.

I've "rough measured" (COAL with callipers) up a few bullets that fit into my Hawkins mag. Here are the results

Berger 168 VLD fits about perfect. Haven't hunting with them
Berger 175 Elite Hunter- crowds the case a little. Not sure it would make much of a difference. Haven't hunted with them.
Nosler 160 Accubond - Factory ammo - eats into the case. I was still getting about 2850 fps. Shot a larger Whitetail buck it it at 185 yards. Hammered him. Would use again.
Hornady CX 160 - way down into the powder column. Seem's like most coppers in the 160 grain would be similar. Probably better in a 7 PRC.
Nosler 150 Long Range Accubond - Could work well.
Barnes 160 LRX - Not ideal
Barnes 152 LRX - works. Could be a good option.

**most photos have a factory Nosler 160 grain accubond beside the bullet of choice at 2.970-2.980 (Hawkins Hunter max length) for reference
Click to expand...

I’m not real up to snuff on all the numbers, but the cartridge has gained popularity in bench rest shooting. ADG makes head stamped brass for it as well which could make it a contender. Others would be able to explain more then myself, I just know guys who know a lot more then I do tend to like the cartridge.

Iirc, RJ has one, but he was up half the night on gunnutz and sleeping in it looks like 🤣

My dad took an elk with my 7 Saum and 168gr VLD just inside 300 yards. It made a pretty good mess but did kill fast. I really hoped mine would shoot 160gr accubonds but it wouldn’t shoot them as good as I’d liked with the couple powders iv tried.
 
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