Short Barrel accuracy impact?

rascal1 said:
Or look at a totally different platform all together.
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im open to totally different platforms as long as they meet my original criteria.
The 783 has a good reputation but if there is something else out there id def be interested.


My criteria
- 308, because its good multiple purpose and easy to source caliber. Main use, deer but want ability for other things if needed
- accuracy, most shots will be avg ~125 yrs but i may want to go out to 200yrs. Never more than 250 yrs. I may take to the range for fun but likely wont ever compete
- as compact as reasonably possible because ill be carrying in eastern Ontario bush. In a truck, on an ATV etc..
- magazine fed, i like mags (that's why I was leaning to the 7[/I]83)
 
Actually shorter barrels are stiffer leading to more constancy because of less barrel vibration. There is no accuracy loss from barrel length only velocity loss. I have multiple 16" barreled rifles and my Renegade 10.5" 300 blackout is awesome!
 
Ravage said:
Actually shorter barrels are stiffer leading to more constancy because of less barrel vibration. There is no accuracy loss from barrel length only velocity loss. I have multiple 16" barreled rifles and my Renegade 10.5" 300 blackout is awesome!
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This. A shorter tube is less flexible than a longer tube. - dan
 
Jmcc said:
im open to totally different platforms as long as they meet my original criteria.
The 783 has a good reputation but if there is something else out there id def be interested.


My criteria
- 308, because its good multiple purpose and easy to source caliber. Main use, deer but want ability for other things if needed
- accuracy, most shots will be avg ~125 yrs but i may want to go out to 200yrs. Never more than 250 yrs. I may take to the range for fun but likely wont ever compete
- as compact as reasonably possible because ill be carrying in eastern Ontario bush. In a truck, on an ATV etc..
- magazine fed, i like mags (that's why I was leaning to the 7[/I]83)
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Sounds like my 20 inch barrel T3x 308..
 
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kthomas said:
I don't think anyone can shoot the difference, even if that is true.

I know Virgil King found that 21.75" barrel was the most accurate length, though who knows how much of that is truth versus myth.
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That is in fact physics. How you (or I) shoot it will be a completely different subject, with a LOT of variables. - dan
 
dan belisle said:
That is in fact physics. How you (or I) shoot it will be a completely different subject, with a LOT of variables. - dan
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Yes, a shorter barrel with the same sectional density will be stiffer than a longer one, all else equal.

What isn't clear is how that relationship of barrel stiffness and barrel harmonics has to play in the precision potential of a rifle.
 
kthomas said:
Yes, a shorter barrel with the same sectional density will be stiffer than a longer one, all else equal.

What isn't clear is how that relationship of barrel stiffness and barrel harmonics has to play in the precision potential of a rifle.
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Stiffer barrels have less barrel harmonics giving them more consistency overall. Sure we are talking extremely small numbers overall for all this but the only real noticeable to the shooter variable that changes with barrel length is velocity. A rifle with ammunition tuned for it is always going to be the maximum accuracy you can get.
 
Ravage said:
Stiffer barrels have less barrel harmonics giving them more consistency overall. Sure we are talking extremely small numbers overall for all this but the only real noticeable to the shooter variable that changes with barrel length is velocity. A rifle with ammunition tuned for it is always going to be the maximum accuracy you can get.
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There's certainly a point of diminishing returns. In how many cases, is the shooter actually being held back by their barrel stiffness? In real world practicality, I don't think barrel stiffness has any exploitable difference over a rifles precision potential.

I think we agree in that the only real exploitable difference we will see between different barrels, all else equal but length (and thus stiffness) is velocity.

Academically, there's a lot more to the discussion, and I'll defer to Bryan Litz on the subject. In practicality, stiffness doesn't really matter.
 
45C said:
I had a 783 chambered in 6.5 CM, great rifle but the stock is complete garbage.

I put mine in a MDT chassis and it shot sub MOA with my hand loads.

It weighed about 9+ lbs with scope.
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My 783 (plastic stock) 308 win shoots easy .75 inch groups @ 100 yards in the factory stock.

My 783 7mm remington mag. shoots 1/2 inch groups @ 100 yards bedded into a Boyds thumbhole stock.

Both of these gun I bought when on sale for under 350.00.

No need to make it to heavy to hunt with by putting it into a MDT chassis. :)
 
hawk-i said:
My 783 (plastic stock) 308 win shoots easy .75 inch groups @ 100 yards in the factory stock.

My 783 7mm remington mag. shoots 1/2 inch groups @ 100 yards bedded into a Boyds thumbhole stock.

Both of these gun I bought when on sale for under 350.00.

No need to make it to heavy to hunt with by putting it into a MDT chassis. :)
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The original stock was horrible, I tried hogging out matarial so the barrel could freefloat, but I only made a mess of it.
So I through it in an MDT chassis.
It shot much better, but at a bit more weight.

I fixed all that though, sold the 783 and got a Tikka 6.5 PRC HB.. lol
 
I'm with Dan on this one.

Short barrel is more rigid than a longer barrel of the same contour, and eliminates the chances of other variables like wandering bore size, straightness, bad rifling etc. May or may not be present depending on the quality of the barrel....but the shorter one will still be subject to less detrimental effects on firing. Less motion, less chance of the bullet leaving barrel while barrel is pointed in a different attitude downrange

(Theres a lot more to this like your threads for example. If your barrel has loose ass v threads and has loctite trying to solve that problem like Remington 700s I've seen taken apart around 2010...thats gonna shift in the receiver lol. But I'm talkin all things otherwise being equal here.)

How much does that matter? Anyone can argue that all they want. Angels on the head of a pin.

But its a better barrel.

The only difference the OP is going to see out of the barrel length he wants vs a longer one is the longer barrel brings him a few inches closer to the target.
 
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Joel said:
The only difference the OP is going to see out of the barrel length he wants vs a longer one is the longer barrel brings him a few inches closer to the target.
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What I've gotten from this thread is that ill lose some velocity but that's about it. Nothing on accuracy. (great to learn)
Since most of my shots will be under 200 yrs i don't think ill have any issues going as short as I want
 
Jmcc said:
What I've gotten from this thread is that ill lose some velocity but that's about it. Nothing on accuracy. (great to learn)
Since most of my shots will be under 200 yrs i don't think ill have any issues going as short as I want
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Doubt it man.

I do find the question of how short is too short to be interesting, in particular what the mechanics that cause issues would be. But doubt you're going THAT short lol.

You know, I wonder if the "shorter barrels are less accurate" stuff is a holdover from when just about every rifle had iron sights, and the shorter sight radius made a rifle harder to shoot as well (and not less accurate)
 
Joel said:
Doubt it man.

I do find the question of how short is too short to be interesting, in particular what the mechanics that cause issues would be. But doubt you're going THAT short lol.

You know, I wonder if the "shorter barrels are less accurate" stuff is a holdover from when just about every rifle had iron sights, and the shorter sight radius made a rifle harder to shoot as well (and not less accurate)
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As for length I have a few different guns at 18.5 inches and id love to go shorter with this.
My though is something between 12 and 16 inches. I was just looking to see if there was a specific length that had a big difference.
 
So, do the barrel start whipping before or after the bullet exits?
If we’re talking 3000 FPS , how long do it take to travel 26 inches.. lol
 
Put some random contact points in the barrel channel and find out ;)

If 3000 fps is fast enough, and there's no vibrations until after the bullet leaves the barrel, then it should be just as accurate as when you free-float it afterward :p
 
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