Short barreled ARs...reliable or not?

tootall said:
How violent is the ejection on the real short ones?
Does the extractor ever break?
Does the case rim get bent all to hell?
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How short are we talking? As long as the gun has a heavy buffer the ejection is the same as any. I've yet to see any extractors go, and I can't report ever seeing the rims get mangled either.

alpha niner said:
So what are the recommended ammo to shoot out of a stubby 7" AR then?
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Are you looking for the right ammo to fragment or just reliable plinking ammo?
 
Short barrels defeat the purpose of the .556 / .223 cartridge . As a high velocity varmint cartridge it was designed around a 20 inch or longer barrel, most of its benefits start to go away with shorter barrels , no varmint hunter in ther right mind would ever use a 10 inch barrel to kill Coyotes at distance.. I shot a wet phone book at 100 yards with a 10 inch 1/9 twist AR , bullet did not go through not much damage to the book . Then shot the same book with my 20 inch SP1 1/12 twist using the same AE 55gr , blew a hole the size of my fist right through the back of the book . I think short barreled .223 ARs are way overrated and waste of powder and unnecessary fireballs just show people where you are , and can really hinder your view in low light , extra noise too.. If nothing else cool range toys though. There are way better more efficient cartridges for short barrels under 14 inch like the 10mm ,5.7x28 , 4.6x30 , 300blk , 9x39mm, 7.62x39
 
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Since all AR's are "range toys", concerns over lack of penetration and fragmentation are moot.
All of my AR's are 'shorties', apart from a Colt 6920 (16"), and for the sole purpose of punching paper , or ringing plates, they 'function' perfectly.
 
foxbat said:
Since all AR's are "range toys", concerns over lack of penetration and fragmentation are moot.
All of my AR's are 'shorties', apart from a Colt 6920 (16"), and for the sole purpose of punching paper , or ringing plates, they 'function' perfectly.
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Here maybe, all of our AR's are classed the same, but in the U.S. it's a whole other story. Very few, if any, of those that choose to build/buy an SBR venture in the 7.5" area other than those who have too much money, because there is absolutely no advantage to going under 10" whatsoever. People who design and build AR-15's for a living don't go shorter than 10.3"-10.5" because of many reasons, the first being you lose a lot of velocity, anywhere from 300 to 400 fps to be exact.
 
boss351cleveland said:
Short barrels defeat the purpose of the .556 / .223 cartridge . As a high velocity varmint cartridge it was designed around a 20 inch or longer barrel, most of its benefits start to go away with shorter barrels , no varmint hunter in ther right mind would ever use a 10 inch barrel to kill Coyotes at distance.. I shot a wet phone book at 100 yards with a 10 inch 1/9 twist AR , bullet did not go through not much damage to the book . Then shot the same book with my 20 inch SP1 1/12 twist using the same AE 55gr , blew a hole the size of my fist right through the back of the book . I think short barreled .223 ARs are way overrated and waste of powder and unnecessary fireballs just show people where you are , and can really hinder your view in low light , extra noise too.. If nothing else cool range toys though. There are way better more efficient cartridges for short barrels under 14 inch like the 10mm ,5.7x28 , 4.6x30 , 300blk , 9x39mm, 7.62x39
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Yes, well he's not going to have to worry about how it performs on coyotes now, is he?

OP, I have about a dozen short AR's with barrel lengths ranging from 7.5" to 11.5". Most any factory built gun will run well, as will most builds if you have some idea as to what you are doing. If you are looking for something reliable without spending big dollars on it, I would take a look at a Rock River Arms pistol from Questar, and drop a receiver extension and collapsable stock on it and be good to go! If you are not comfortable swapping the parts yourself they will do it for you for a nominal fee. My first shorty was a RRA and it had many thousands of rounds through it with no issues at all. Have fun!
 
boss351cleveland said:
Short barrels defeat the purpose of the .556 / .223 cartridge . As a high velocity varmint cartridge it was designed around a 20 inch or longer barrel, most of its benefits start to go away with shorter barrels , no varmint hunter in ther right mind would ever use a 10 inch barrel to kill Coyotes at distance.. I shot a wet phone book at 100 yards with a 10 inch 1/9 twist AR , bullet did not go through not much damage to the book . Then shot the same book with my 20 inch SP1 1/12 twist using the same AE 55gr , blew a hole the size of my fist right through the back of the book . I think short barreled .223 ARs are way overrated and waste of powder and unnecessary fireballs just show people where you are , and can really hinder your view in low light , extra noise too.. If nothing else cool range toys though. There are way better more efficient cartridges for short barrels under 14 inch like the 10mm ,5.7x28 , 4.6x30 , 300blk , 9x39mm, 7.62x39
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I own two AR's, I have a 10.5" LMT upper on one lower and had a 16" LMT upper on the other. I just purchased a 12.5" DD upper and I am debating if I should sell, or keep the 16" upper.

As mentioned above, all AR's are range only toys, so paper and steel gongs are all we will shoot at, most of us, including myself, shoot hard ball ammo, which is not ideal for punching paper at long ranges when compared to good reloads.
Coyotes don't come into the story when discussing AR's in Canada.

I agree with you though, for a long range vermint gun, I am almost ready to shoot my new .223 bolt gun, which has a 26" barrel, plus I'll be feeding it developed hand loads to reach out longer distances with much better accuracy.

The main reason most US folks don't go to shorter barrel lengths, is because they get to hunt with an AR, so the longer barrel is more desireable. Also, I may not be 100% correct, but as I recall, some states require a fee/permit to own a SBR.

Oh, as far as using short barreled AR's and discussing lost velocity, they are range only toys, that are shoot just to make flame balls............................................... I guess someone better tell these guys they are no damn good! ;-)

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...114-Snapshots-of-a-Rare-Diemaco-L119-(C8-CQB)

Merry Christmas fellow CGN'ers.

After owning and shooting the 10.5" and 16" for some time, the shorter, lighter, quicker to point 10.5" became my 'go to' AR. The reason I purchased a 12.5".
 
All my AR's are SBR's (except for my SP1) and range in length from 7.5"-12". The fact is no one wants to shoot the SP1...too retro (and big). Everyone wants the shorty's. As a range only toy you want to have fun with it and the shorty's deliver in spades. I have not had any issues with any of mine. I did grab a couple of H3 buffers just in case I needed them but so far everything is working fine with the H2's I've got installed.
 
boss351cleveland said:
Short barrels defeat the purpose of the .556 / .223 cartridge . As a high velocity varmint cartridge it was designed around a 20 inch or longer barrel, most of its benefits start to go away with shorter barrels , no varmint hunter in ther right mind would ever use a 10 inch barrel to kill Coyotes at distance.. I shot a wet phone book at 100 yards with a 10 inch 1/9 twist AR , bullet did not go through not much damage to the book . Then shot the same book with my 20 inch SP1 1/12 twist using the same AE 55gr , blew a hole the size of my fist right through the back of the book . I think short barreled .223 ARs are way overrated and waste of powder and unnecessary fireballs just show people where you are , and can really hinder your view in low light , extra noise too.. If nothing else cool range toys though. There are way better more efficient cartridges for short barrels under 14 inch like the 10mm ,5.7x28 , 4.6x30 , 300blk , 9x39mm, 7.62x39
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cool story/opinion bro...and lol at 5.7x28 and 4.6x30.....
 
When I was building my 8.5" shorty this year I questioned the performance of the ammo in the short short barrels as well. As many have said, for a range plinker gun only who really cares how the ammo performs.

Having said that I made a point of reaching out to Hornady, Nosler and Barnes to ask them for some advise on the best bullet to use in an 8.5" SBR, and how would they perform up to 100yards.

They all came back to state that typically the HBPT bullets in the heavier weights would hit hard, be accurate and be more than capable of doing what would be required in a home defensive use.

I felt comfortable with that answer, not that it was going to sway my from building my first shorty.

Later.............
 
Non-phixion said:
cool story/opinion bro...and lol at 5.7x28 and 4.6x30.....
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Did i say 5.7x28 and 4.6x30 are the most affordable/ available cartridges .. No i did not ! I said the best most efficient ones for short barrels PDW type rifles .. FN and HK did the research , maybe you should too .. Or go buy chronograph or try shooting some wet phone books or cinder blocks with a short AR and then try a barrel 14 inch or over and see the difference for yourself , and im not your bro douche bag ..
 
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blackacres said:
I own two AR's, I have a 10.5" LMT upper on one lower and had a 16" LMT upper on the other. I just purchased a 12.5" DD upper and I am debating if I should sell, or keep the 16" upper.

As mentioned above, all AR's are range only toys, so paper and steel gongs are all we will shoot at, most of us, including myself, shoot hard ball ammo, which is not ideal for punching paper at long ranges when compared to good reloads.
Coyotes don't come into the story when discussing AR's in Canada.

I agree with you though, for a long range vermint gun, I am almost ready to shoot my new .223 bolt gun, which has a 26" barrel, plus I'll be feeding it developed hand loads to reach out longer distances with much better accuracy.

The main reason most US folks don't go to shorter barrel lengths, is because they get to hunt with an AR, so the longer barrel is more desireable. Also, I may not be 100% correct, but as I recall, some states require a fee/permit to own a SBR.

Oh, as far as using short barreled AR's and discussing lost velocity, they are range only toys, that are shoot just to make flame balls............................................... I guess someone better tell these guys they are no damn good! ;-)

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...114-Snapshots-of-a-Rare-Diemaco-L119-(C8-CQB)

Merry Christmas fellow CGN'ers.

After owning and shooting the 10.5" and 16" for some time, the shorter, lighter, quicker to point 10.5" became my 'go to' AR. The reason I purchased a 12.5".
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Just cause very few CF units may use them sometimes does not mean there the best thing out there in that size, many things we use are crap and we should have something different . The Secret Service uses P90s not short ARs to protect the most powerful man on earth , so whats your point ? I will mention too there is a reason the USMC has never really wavered from the 20'' M16 they did their own studies and decided the M4 barrel length reduction was not worth the ballistic loss in most cases . But yes none of this matters to us Canadian civilians cause ARs are only range toys anyway , so yes a short AR is a great choice for us , they look cool as hell are loud as hell and piss off the fudds lol.
 
A 20" AR with a rifle length gas system is probably the most trouble-free setup, generally speaking.
But a shorter AR can still be made reliable, assuming proper gas port diameter, extractor & spring, buffer weight and buffer spring.
There is also the dwell time issue, which I believe drops off dramatically below 11 inches on a carbine length gas system.
As for ballistics, can someone more knowledgeable than I chime in on whether some bullet weights/powder combinations work better for shorter barrels?
 
I have a Bushmaster 11.5. It hammers away no matter how dirty it gets. I think if you buy a purpose built sbr from a good company, your chances of having problems are slim. With a budget under $1500 you may be limited though... If you are a cqb guy at heart, then the shorter the gun gets, the more fun you'll have. I say go for it.
 
I had an 11.5" bushmaster that worked flawlessly the entire time I owned it. A friend had a dpms kitty kat 7.5" that was a constant headache. Your mileage may very but I wouldn't go much shorter then 11.5" personally.
 
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