Short barrels on Magnum calibers

Andy said:
If for example I wanted a 20" barrel for easy of handling, or lighter weight, or even because I like the way it looks, but a 30-06 couldn't provide the MV (energy) I need, then you go with a 300 Win Mag (or higher). Sure it's louder and kicks more and is less "efficient", but it's that simple.
Click to expand...
^this!

If I could get the same performance from a 30-06 with 250gr bullets out of an 18" barrel as my 338 lapua has, I wouldn't have the lapua.
 
BeaverMeat said:
Unless it’s a larger bore like 338 and up… a short barreled 30 cal magnum is a bit redundant.

I’ll say again… 350 Rem Mag! The original short mag. It’s one of those cartridges that was way ahead of its time. It’s unfortunate you need to be a reloader to appreciate it.
Click to expand...

aardvaark said:
Seems to me you could make up some of the energy loss of going to a short barrel by using a slightly faster powder, no? And especially so with a 16.5 barrel?
Click to expand...

Yes, somewhat agreed on both counts.
 
BeaverMeat said:
Unless it’s a larger bore like 338 and up… a short barreled 30 cal magnum is a bit redundant.
Click to expand...

A 16.5" barreled .300RCM has the same energy as a 24" barreled 30-06. So why wouldn't I just carry the 30-06? Because it's not compact. It's the reason Ruger built the cartridge.

Also note that the .30 bullet is flatter shooting than the porkier pigs so it makes for a splendid bush gun that can also reach out a long ways. Best of both worlds.
 
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Just for the sake of conversation, here's some 16" velocity predictions for a handful of common magnums

Code: 
Cartridge          : .[B]257 Wby Mag[/B]
Bullet             : .257, [B]117, Sierra SPBT[/B] 1630
Useable Case Capaci: 77.972 grain H2O = 5.063 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.170 inch = 80.52 mm
[B]Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch[/B] = 406.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

65 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Hodgdon Retumbo                    104.0     75.2     4.87    2975    98.8    61432   26983   0.933  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N570                    100.6     76.2     4.94    2972    90.5    62000   28419   0.938  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-33                 102.3     79.8     5.17    2960    90.9    62000   28112   0.940  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25                  97.5     69.7     4.52    2952    99.6    62000   25590   0.933  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N568                    100.2     75.1     4.87    2950    93.4    62000   27345   0.941  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26                  89.0     68.7     4.45    2950    99.7    62000   26204   0.952  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                            96.5     67.4     4.37    2947    95.8    62000   25831   0.920  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000                      101.3     72.1     4.67    2946    96.2    62000   25534   0.914  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                  92.6     67.3     4.36    2927    97.1    62000   25518   0.934  ! Near Maximum !

16" 257 Wby, 117gr bullet @ 2960 fps +/-, about like a 24" 25-06 factory load
 
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Code: 
Cartridge          : .[B]270 WSM[/B]
Bullet             : .277, [B]140, Sierra SPBT[/B] 1845
Useable Case Capaci: 72.381 grain H2O = 4.700 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch = 72.64 mm
[B]Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch[/B] = 406.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

53 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-25                 102.1     67.7     4.39    2853    99.5    62000   20933   0.912  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26                  93.0     66.7     4.32    2853    99.6    62000   21419   0.928  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828SSC                         95.3     65.3     4.23    2830    95.3    62000   20965   0.905  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N570                    104.0     73.2     4.74    2825    89.2    59599   22702   0.934  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560                     96.2     65.6     4.25    2823    94.6    62000   21367   0.917  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N568                    104.0     72.4     4.69    2821    92.6    60724   22044   0.934  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                  96.4     65.0     4.21    2808    96.7    62000   20770   0.921  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N565                    100.4     68.8     4.46    2798    94.8    62000   21174   0.944  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23                  97.7     63.8     4.13    2797   100.0    62000   19132   0.927  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19                  93.8     62.6     4.06    2781    96.8    62000   19850   0.915  ! Near Maximum !

16" 270 WSM, 140gr bullet @ 2835 fps +/-, about like a 22" 270 Win factory load
 
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Code: 
Cartridge          : [B]7 mm Rem Mag[/B]
Bullet             : .284, [B]160, Sierra SPBT[/B] 1920
Useable Case Capaci: 78.599 grain H2O = 5.103 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch = 83.57 mm
[B]Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch[/B] = 406.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

64 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-33                 103.3     81.2     5.26    2737    91.8    62000   24204   0.948  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25                  98.4     70.9     4.59    2724    99.8    62000   21793   0.940  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26                  89.5     69.7     4.52    2722    99.9    62000   22251   0.956  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo                    104.0     75.8     4.91    2721    99.0    59588   22847   0.946  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N568                    101.0     76.3     4.95    2720    94.1    62000   23450   0.956  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000                      102.2     73.3     4.75    2709    96.7    62000   21794   0.924  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                            97.3     68.5     4.44    2709    96.3    62000   22071   0.931  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560                     92.9     68.8     4.46    2705    95.7    62000   22511   0.941  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                  93.2     68.3     4.42    2689    97.6    62000   21816   0.946  ! Near Maximum !

16" 7mm Rem Mag, 160gr bullet @ 2720 fps +/-, about like a 26" 7mm-08 or a 22" 280 Rem
 
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Code: 
Cartridge          : .[B]300 Win Mag[/B]
Bullet             : .308, [B]180, Sierra SPBT[/B] 2160
Useable Case Capaci: 82.477 grain H2O = 5.355 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
[B]Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch[/B] = 406.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

51 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26                  94.8     77.5     5.02    2759    99.5    62000   21299   0.918  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25                 103.9     78.6     5.09    2757    99.4    62000   20790   0.903  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP                           95.9     76.1     4.93    2734    97.7    62000   21049   0.914  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828SSC                         96.9     75.7     4.91    2729    94.9    62000   20710   0.897  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560                     97.8     76.0     4.92    2724    94.1    62000   21123   0.909  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                  98.0     75.3     4.88    2709    96.3    62000   20548   0.913  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16                  90.8     67.2     4.36    2709    99.8    62000   19095   0.905  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23                  99.4     74.0     4.79    2702   100.0    62000   19017   0.918  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N565                    102.2     79.8     5.17    2701    94.3    62000   20947   0.936  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N555                     96.1     71.6     4.64    2683    99.8    62000   19310   0.935  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19                  95.3     72.4     4.69    2680    96.4    62000   19605   0.909  ! Near Maximum !

16" 300 Win Mag, 180gr bullet @ 2735 fps +/-, about like a 22" 30-06
 
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Code: 
Cartridge          : .[B]30-378 Wby Mag[/B]
Bullet             : .308, [B]200, Sierra SPBT[/B] 2165
Useable Case Capaci: 121.865 grain H2O = 7.913 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.655 inch = 92.84 mm
[B]Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch[/B] = 406.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

86 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N570                     92.3    109.3     7.08    2766    93.5    62000   30810   1.024  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo                     95.5    107.9     6.99    2763    99.9    62000   28478   1.015  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot LRT                         96.1    116.4     7.54    2758    88.0    62000   29902   0.998  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-33                  94.1    114.7     7.43    2757    93.9    62000   30556   1.027  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N568                     92.1    107.9     6.99    2746    96.0    62000   29486   1.025  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 217                           97.2    107.5     6.97    2746    99.3    62000   29130   1.040  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8133 Enduron                    98.2    108.0     7.00    2742    97.9    62000   29098   1.030  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                            89.0     97.2     6.30    2741    98.0    62000   27666   0.999  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000                       93.5    103.9     6.73    2740    98.3    62000   27423   0.996  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25                  89.5    100.0     6.48    2733   100.0    62000   26701   1.016  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO                     85.3    101.9     6.60    2731    96.0    62000   28447   1.018  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26                  81.4     98.3     6.37    2728   100.0    62000   27185   1.037  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                  85.4     97.0     6.28    2722    98.9    62000   27170   1.013  ! Near Maximum !

16" 30-378 Wby Mag, 200gr bullet @ 2760 fps +/-, about like a 24" 300 Win Mag factory load
 
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Code: 
Cartridge          : .[B]338 Win Mag[/B]
Bullet             : .338,[B] 250, Sierra SPBT [/B]2600
Useable Case Capaci: 75.450 grain H2O = 4.899 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
[B]Barrel Length      : 16.0 inch[/B] = 406.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

40 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26                 100.6     75.3     4.88    2496    99.7    62000   17351   0.968  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP                          101.5     73.6     4.77    2464    97.9    62000   17142   0.955  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560                    103.3     73.4     4.75    2449    94.3    62000   17157   0.952  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828SSC                        101.9     72.8     4.72    2442    94.9    62000   16690   0.944  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                 103.4     72.7     4.71    2435    96.5    62000   16684   0.958  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17                  90.8     66.3     4.29    2434   100.0    62000   15362   0.959  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16                  95.8     64.9     4.20    2430    99.9    62000   15411   0.953  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N555                    101.5     69.2     4.49    2412    99.9    62000   15628   0.981  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      95.5     68.6     4.45    2400    98.7    62000   15599   0.966  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19                 100.1     69.6     4.51    2399    96.4    62000   15846   0.960  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      90.2     66.4     4.30    2395    98.0    62000   15582   0.968  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        90.2     66.4     4.30    2395    98.0    62000   15582   0.968  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                     92.3     65.6     4.25    2385    99.6    62000   15199   0.976  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223                      86.1     65.3     4.23    2384    99.7    62000   14931   0.970  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831SC                    101.4     71.3     4.62    2378    94.0    62000   15473   0.955  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                            99.6     66.3     4.30    2372    99.7    62000   14786   0.979  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame                     85.9     63.7     4.13    2370   100.0    62000   14406   0.972  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                 97.5     65.6     4.25    2364   100.0    62000   14000   0.970  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350                       97.6     66.4     4.30    2354    97.5    62000   14724   0.967  ! Near Maximum !

16" 338 Win Mag, 250gr bullet @ 2450 fps +/-, about like a 22" 338-06
 
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I have a 375 Ruger Hawkeye m-77 , left hand , 20” bbl, nice short compact gun for me
I have shot deer at 50 yds, and out to a long shot for me , but got a 5x5 elk at 530 yds, with my hand loads, sierra game king 250gr , sp, av 2827 fps, RL-15
Gun handles nice for me and is accurate ,
Is quickly becoming my favourite gun at this point in my hunting , nice to carry while walking in the bush,
 
Any advantages of an rcm case over a wsm case? Besides a 338 offering.

Kind of interested in a 325 wsm as well, but the 35 Sambar has been on my mind for years at this point
 
conor_90 said:
Any advantages of an rcm case over a wsm case? Besides a 338 offering.
Click to expand...

The WSM has more case capacity, so for reloading it will have more velocity.

Supposedly, the RCM factory loadings use a proprietary powder to achieve higher velocities in short barrels.
 
20" isn't a short barrel, 16" is
differences mostly in perceived recoil, a real issue for many shooters
How many enjoy a short, ported 45/70
 
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